The Mayflower

[macwilkin]

I always get a hoot out of political references to the ideals of the founding fathers...while some of my Mayflower ancestors were for sure merchants bent on making a buck, the Mayflower Compact sure seems like a bit of early commune living...and the Mayflower passengers were brightly dressed and prolific in their love of each other...would fit in well with some 20th century communes...just my opinion...

Ron -- interesting comment, but I'm not sure I agree with it. Have a look at this article on Thomas Morton of Merrymount who gets my nod for the first "commune" in North America:

http://members.aol.com/srasmus/olden...errymount.html

For sure an opportunity for Mayflower descendents to consider the Dutch Friendship tartan for all the help they got in Leyden.

I can't say I agree with this point either: remember the Plymouth Separatists left Holland because they were losing their English identity, especially their children, who were adopting Dutch ways. Yes, the Dutch welcomed them, but the whole reason for the move to New England was to preserve their community.

Sorry to be so academic this morning.

Todd

[O'Callaghan]

There are reasons for that. My understanding is that DNA testing doesn't support their claims as NA.

Native Americans, or 'Indians', are not one ethnic group, but many. Early photos show a huge range of skin colour and facial features. I was struck by old photos of the Fox tribe that appear completely caucasian. You don't hear about that particular tribe anymore, but I assume they became assimilated, because they looked like us. It's apparent that Native Americans came to America from more than one place, but if they were here before European settlers then they are Native American.

The difficulty is how do you classify, say, someone whose ancestors were here before 1600, but who seems ethnically European? There have been remains found that date as prehistoric but which appear to be caucasian, and they may have left descendants. How also would you distinguish those people from the descendants of lost colonies of settlers? Are they settlers if they came within our recorded history and NA if they came in prehistory? And how do you know which is which?

[gilmore]

Native Americans, or 'Indians', are not one ethnic group, but many. Early photos show a huge range of skin colour and facial features. I was struck by old photos of the Fox tribe that appear completely caucasian. You don't hear about that particular tribe anymore, but I assume they became assimilated, because they looked like us. It's apparent that Native Americans came to America from more than one place, but if they were here before European settlers then they are Native American.

The difficulty is how do you classify, say, someone whose ancestors were here before 1600, but who seems ethnically European? There have been remains found that date as prehistoric but which appear to be caucasian, and they may have left descendants. How also would you distinguish those people from the descendants of lost colonies of settlers? Are they settlers if they came within our recorded history and NA if they came in prehistory? And how do you know which is which?

Simple. DNA. Physical characteristics may be misleading, and one's family may have been lying about their ancestry for generations, but Y chromosome DNA, mitochondrial DNA and autosomal DNA neither mislead nor lie. In fact the results of testing them are quite straightforawrd.

As was mentioned above, genetic testing of the group in question shows less than 10% native American ancestry, with the vast majority of their ancestors having come from Europe and Africa.