Joining A Clan?

[Mair of the Tribe of Mar]

as posted by macneighill
2. A clique; a sect, society, or body of persons; esp., a body of persons united by some common interest or pursuit; -- sometimes used contemptuously.

According to Webster's, Xmarks is a clan then! We are a body of persons united by a common interest or pursuit, and perhaps the some of the outside world, our ideas are held in a little contempt.

As well, what about a person that is a MacDonald because their ancestor was a random son of a man named Donald and bears no familial relation to anyone from the Isle of Skye or surrounding areas? I have no doubt that any of the Clan Societies that are related to the name MacDonald, even the ones that follow the "law" to a "T", would have a problem letting this brother into their midst, since his name was MacDonald. Any thoughts!

[gilmore]

It's 1620. Thomas Hawley, from northern Northumblerland is running away from the law, seeing as He has been accused of stealing from the local abbey. Whether he actually did steal anything or not, is irrelevant...he runs north and east, because if he doesn't, someone is going either kill him or cut off his hands. He winds up working a coastal fishing boat and skips off the boat when it anchors in the Firth of Tay. Three weeks later he's found himself a comely lass in a family that owes allegiance to the Lindsays.

He settles down and quits his wandering ways, marries the lass and swears allegiance to the Lindsay Laird.

He's a Lindsay: He's English, he has no genetic connections to the Lindsays, and his name is Hawley. But now, he's a Lindsay, his children are Lindsays, etc.

Now, what's the modern equivalent of that?

There isn't one.

One might as well ask how does one become a citizen of the Confederate States of America, or how does one aquire a title of nobility from a republican country that was once a monarchy.

The above hypothetical question puts the horse before the cart. Women at the time were more often married off by their families and in their fathers' or other relatives' interests, rather than their own. The fugitive Englishman would more likely be allowed to "join" a clan only if he had shown that he had some useful talent or trade, or was financially an asset and not likely become merely another useless mouth to feed. I would guess that it would not be at all unusual for him to be fleeced or otherwise taken advantage of in order to live in clan lands and be given its protection. Only then, perhaps, would he be married off to a clansman's daughter, willingly or with some degree of coercion.

Some may find it interesting and romantic to appropriate the accoutrements of former times, but from time to time reality raises its 21st century head. The clans haven't existed for going on 300 years, and were in their heyday centuries before that. There are reasons for that.

I very much doubt that most modern people, especially Americans, would like living in the clan system at all. Where you lived, how much income you had, whether you fought to the death against some one whom you didn't care about one way or the other, were all determined by one person, the chief. And how happy your life was depended on getting along with your relatives, who surrounded you from cradle to grave. Imagine the most cantakerous, mean-spirited people you are related to. Imagine living next door to them, or in the same house, and interacting with them every day and at every meal, not just at the odd wedding, funeral, Christmas or birthday every few years and at your own choosing. Imagine being trapped in that life with no way out except dying. If you left, you would be at the mercy of anyone who wanted to commit any sort of violence, theft or rape against you.

Now imagine your chief being given a title by the British crown, speaking a language not your own, holding the clan lands in fee from the crown rather than as head of the collective ownership of the extended family as had been the case for centuries, and then evicting most of his relatives in order to raise sheep and amass a fortune for himself.

BTW a laird was/is not at all necessarily a chief, and vice versa. "Laird" is what were called those who held their lands from the crown (usually. Sometimes they held them from great nobles.) They were and are more properly called "feudal barons," and are not at all to be confused with barons who are nobles in the peerage of Scotland, a different thing altogether. In other words, they were Scots landlords. It was not at all unusual for clan chiefs to also be or become lairds, being enfeoffed of land by the crown. But then, that is a different system altogether, the feudal system, as opposed to the older clan system. Neither have very much relevance at all to the day to day lives of modern Scots or other descendants of medieval and earlier Scots.

[Bugbear]

... Some may find it interesting and romantic to appropriate the accoutrements of former times, but from time to time reality raises its 21st century head. ...

* Heard in a muffled tone from within the covered cage. *
Even from not so long ago... Remembering the "good old days" from growing up...

[Scotus]

I very much doubt that most modern people, especially Americans, would like living in the clan system at all.

Very well said, Gilmore. I agree with you. I know I would not wish to live in the clan system.

As I've said, I think clan societies today are name/cultural organizations. Chiefs are persons to whom we can look as the symbol of the clan. I suppose there is a lot of romaticism involved in the way we think about clans, tartan, etc., which isn't necessarily all bad. It only becomes bad when we convince ourselves that it's really more important than it actually is. I think it's important that clan societies don't take themselves too seriously. Yes, they need run things well, get newsletters out on time, keep up the Web site, etc.;however, they are more social groups based on an old system that doesn't exist any more. They are a way we can "connect" with our roots.

As for those who keep posting about XMarks... no, it's not a clan in the sense we're discussing here. Sorry.

[Scotus]

BTW, Mair of the Tribe of Mar, I was wondering where you lived if others lived in "the outside world."

I must admit my ignorance when I read your name, "of the Tribe of Mar," which caused me to do a Google search, which took me to the official Web site of the Erskines. Very nicely done. I think the title "The Countess of Mar" has a nice, romantic ring to it. Being a student of Scottish history, if I had had my second cup of coffee (which I'm drinking right now), I would have realized what "the Tribe of Mar" was in the first place.

Anyway, this post of mine is a bit off topic.

[Mair of the Tribe of Mar]

Anyway, this post of mine is a bit off topic.

Anyway, by outside world, I meant those who do not understand the joy of being involved in something as enjoyable and fulfilling as wearing the kilt and being involved in things such as clan/family/tribe organizations and what not. In High School I would wear my kilt on a regular basis, even encouraging a group of my friends that it would be a fun evening if we wore kilts, pc's, and the whole she-bang to our senior prom. And it was the whole She-Bang! And as I wear my kilt out and about now, I run into many that do not understand that Joy that I stated above and sort of hold the whole thing in contempt, or at the least misunderstanding!

But, as I discuss things with them, those that are bold enough to question, they come away with a better understanding and also a curiosity! Hopefully, I made myself a little more understandable and again, a little off the topic!

[Scotus]

Mair, I was being a little tongue-in-check with my question. I hope you don't mind. I did understand your meaning; the phrase "the outside world" just struck me as sounding like something a Trappist monk or Carmelite nun would say. So, I hope you didn't take my question as rude or out of line. I hope you'll also consider the fact it was very early in the morning (and only one cup of coffee) when I wrote that.

[Carolina Kiltman]

Long before the end of the Clan system, as it was, there were many other societies such as guilds, common occupation or other "affinity groups" to use the modern term. There were (and still are) areas in our larger cities known by such names as "China Town" "Little Italy" and in the 70's in my town as "Saigon West". People who came to this country tended to settle in areas of like culture, language and religion. For instance in NE Iowa as late as the 1950's there were churches where the service was still in German. My wife was the first generation in which German was not the first language of the home. (Her mother always prayed in German, and she was born in 1909, and was a third generation American).

The Scots when they came to this country quite often were "transportees" that is imigrants who were forced to come, and were dispersed over the countryside. It seems a rather recent phenomenon that the Scots of the diaspora are reconnecting to their roots, hence the clinging to the clans (as affinity groups) not the political/social/family groups they were originally. They have become essentially affinity groups, loosely bound by common names somewhere back in the mists of their family history.
I'll climb down now.

[Panache]

According to Webster's, Xmarks is a clan then! We are a body of persons united by a common interest or pursuit, and perhaps the some of the outside world, our ideas are held in a little contempt.

MotToM,

As has been clearly pointed out, in reference to the clans of the Scottish Highlands in days of yore, we certainly are not a clan.

However we are a strong and wonderful (though a little weird at times) group of people.

You might find this earlier musing of mine of interest.

http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/x...968/index.html

From it was born the XMTS plant badge, the humble and noble dandelion.

Cheers

Jamie

[Bugbear]

I like dandelions... They have teeth.

Thanks for posting that link, Panache.