Member Rankings/Titles

[davidlpope]

Special titles aside, if you guys really want to make everyone equal and to take out any discomfort for new people than you need to get rid of the post count as well. More emphasis is given to the post count than was ever given to the titles people had. People on Xmarks were basing someone's knowledge on the post count of others. Someone new can come onto the site and post a 1000 "way to go!" comments and climb up the post count ladder in weeks, but they are still not going to have a clue about Scottish culture, history, or the kilt.

So if you guys really want the focus to be on the kilt and the shared experiences on a level playing field than ditch the "kilt count" and the " post count". Deleting the voted on special titles of people that were awarded those titles (as silly as some may have been) for their example and contribution to Xmarks is not going to do that.

I tend to agree. "Rankings" based on your number of posts tell me little about what value your "voice" adds to this forum. It just tells me that you post a lot, nothing about the quality of your posts. Likewise, the number of kilts you own tells me about your disposable income, not about what you contribute on this forum. Some of the voices that I respect the most own very few kilts...

On the other hand, I think it's a fallacy to believe that all members here contribute equally in terms of their insight, experience, and wisdom. A "great levelling" doesn't serve to make new folks feel welcome, it just serves to confuse them because everyone's opinion on a matter (regardless of how unfounded that opinion may be) seems to have the same weight. Honorary titles, when properly vetted through the site's moderators, would separate the sheep from the goats, as it were, thus: (1) recognizing the important contributions of folks like Matt, Rocky, Barb, Hamish, etc., etc.,(too many to adequately list here, my apologies to the rest of you worthy souls..) and (2) providing guidance to new members of these folks' proven reliability and wisdom.

Cordially,

David

[BoldHighlander]

Having been a moderator on more than a few egroups I fully appreciate the difficulty involved in making any forum first rate. And as stated earlier I do appreciate the efforts of all involved (past & present).
But I must lend my voice to those who miss the special titles. Even though I never had one (& thus no real dog in the fight) I always enjoyed viewing those that others had (e.g. Kilted Ghillie etc), and felt that it made XMarks just that much more of a special place. Please rethink the decision & return the special titles.
Thanks.

[Tartanraven]

Is this forum about the kilted lifestyle, or mutual praising?
Nice Kilt.

[Tony]

I think....
There are much bigger things to worry about to be perfectly honest.

[Downunder Kilt]

I think this debate is going to go around and around, like a dog chasing it's tail and both sides of the debate have some very valid points. I have been a member for only a short time but already recognise that many people have far more experience in the wearing of the kilt than I do. I like to read everyone thoughts when a topic is being discused and like to look out for new ideas about anything to do with kilting. Sure I may take more notice of someone who has been wearing the kilt for a long time, more that I would from a from a newbie, but I have learned a quite few things from newbies too.

When I joined the forum I liked the titles, but soon realised that you could quickly work your way up the ladder by posting hello to every new member or an "I agree" in every thread. If you read through the forums you soon get to know who puts thought into their postings and the knowledge they bring to the table. There are many who deserve a title, and I hope the mods provide them with one, and there are others that I see that are in the Hello, I agree, column.

We are all here to talk about kilts, and if you contribute to the forums, you help others who are not sure or looking for an idea.

I personally dont care if I remained a kilted member forever as long as I can post to the forum with my ideas or ask a question when I need help and if the answers came back, it would not matter from whom

[Raphael]

When I joined the forum I liked the titles, but soon realised that you could quickly work your way up the ladder by posting hello to every new member or an "I agree" in every thread. If you read through the forums you soon get to know who puts thought into their postings and the knowledge they bring to the table. There are many who deserve a title, and I hope the mods provide them with one, and there are others that I see that are in the Hello, I agree, column.

We are not only talking about the automatic assigned ranks, but the custom/vanity titles. They are earned by being around the forum and by getting to know the members. They are not randomly assigned, but are created and voted the previous mod squads. We are trying to tell Steve that we want the titles back but Steve isn't getting it. He is choosing to ignore it.

[Tartanraven]

Recognition is a great thing, and those of us that wear kilts certainly get that on a daily basis. But "rank"?? Are you kidding me???? Is this the military? And "vanity" titles? The last thing this forum needs is more vanity! Again, it's a kilt based forum where we all get together supposedly to share our experiences and knowledge. It quickly became a tier based **** patting contest where reputation was protected like a little sisters virginity. One can easily be led to presume that a great number of people are vicariously living a life of achievement in the effort to gain "title". I am titled..I am an armiger, and I take MUCH less stock in what goes before and after my name, then most here take in some vainglourious bit of inane notoriety. Men's club my backside...the plot has been hopelessly lost here folks. It is rote that some of the other more "nefarious" forums are fobidden here...but I've taken a peek into their world and have discovered all the attributes that a forum thrives on. I've seen less infighting and a tremendous level of knowledge and lighthearted "wink wink" tomfoolery. I want to like this forum..and I have...but at the same time I also see it taken as if it were a major career.
"Retired Moderator"??? What does that even mean?? Do you offer retirement packages? Do you offer pensions?
Honestly folks...you are in danger of being Rome all over again here. Especially with the juvenile "I dont like them, and if you are my friend, you must not like them either!"

This is a valid expression of concern, and less of admonishment. If this leads to my being unwelcome, and being forbidden to partake in any reindeer games...then my thoughts will have been validated.

Get a grip oh great leadership, and steer this forum back to where it belongs...a place where those new to the sacred cloth can find honest information from those who know...and not relegated to the viewing area to witness the fashion show put on by the elders.

Lord Scott William Ellis Harvey of Keith - Armiger of the name Harvey
Member of the board of Seven Rivers Highland Society

[sydnie7]

We are not only talking about the automatic assigned ranks, but the custom/vanity titles. They are earned by being around the forum and by getting to know the members. They are not randomly assigned, but are created and voted the previous mod squads. We are trying to tell Steve that we want the titles back but Steve isn't getting it. He is choosing to ignore it.

I agree that the previous titles should stay/be reinstated.

HOWEVER.

I think it is a little early in the day to accuse Steve of "ignoring" member input. He has a lot on his plate, and has already said that the programmer is in a different time zone. I think some of the appearance issues have already been addressed (type is now black vs. grey, for example). But that's an easy fix, and I would have expected quick action.

My hope is that Steve is taking the time to look at all of this input about titles, and discuss the situation with current mods, and come to a decision. That's not a quick process, and I think we all need to state our opinion, then back off a little and see what happens. Not in the next 10 minutes, or even in the next 10 days (although that's an "outside" time frame, IMHO).

He's been presented with a lot of input and information. Give him some time to digest it and act on it. Now, if a reasonable amount of time goes by and we either don't get any response, or Hamish and others don't get their titles back, then I'll be on the barricades right alongside you.

[Tartanraven]

I think the greatest thing to remember in all aspects and elements is this; What we do, in respect to the outward display of Scottish culture and heritage is not to serve the self. We are doing this, and are allowed (yes allowed) to be members of Clans, associations, etc at the desire and whim of not just ourselves, but to the Scottish population worldwide. We are observed by a great many people, and it would be wise to know, that this includes our "bosses" ie: The Peerage of Scotland, as well as the Standing Council Of Clan Chiefs. In many conversations with members of the Council, it has been expressed that while they are pleased with the upswing in Scottish nationalism and culture, they are concerned with the decorum of some elements whom represent Scotland...its people...its traditions. While I would be extremely remiss to say there are spies...there are those that take a great interest in how Americans portray the culture and how it is introduced and maintained.

In my own area, there is tremendous bickering and piss taking amongst some very major societies, and I have made reports to those concerned in Scotland, and lettres of discontent have been issued to aforementioned societies. This is not about us...it is about the scores of unnamed people who wish to discover and explore their heritage. It is about bringing that which is across the ocean, and not always accessible to us...to a place in our hearts and homes here in the US and abroad. Do we really want to send the message that a Highlander is a poncy little princess..preening and prancing for notoriety? Royalist nobility behaved this way...not the rank and file...of whom we embrace and seek to honour.

[MacLowlife]

First,

Thank you all for allowing me to be here. I thank the forum owner, who sweats aspects of this whole thing I haven't even dreamed of. I thank the people who have befriended me and have been supportive. And I thank the people whose brains I have picked, both actively and passively these past six months or so. It has been an interesting ride, to say the least.

But I have to thank TartanRaven, too, who seems to have arrived after I did. Your perspective is valuable- and spot on to my mind. This really is not the most important thing any of us do in a given day, is it? Granted, expressions of friendship and support are pretty important, but we have to earn a living and support our families and only a very few are doing those things via this site.

Henry Kissinger once said that the politics of academia are so bitter because the stakes are so low. Kilt wearing is probably even less significant to most of us, honestly.

I love my kilt. I love my doublets. I like reading about how I can polish the look of my rig and I love seeing other people's obscure and arcane regalia. I love hearing and seeing their knowledge and judgment. But I had a fairly decent and productive life before I saw this site and expect to have one even if this too shall pass.

Careful readers will see that I came on board just before the most recent upheaval started. I was able to see the contributions of folks who have since been less vocal. I gather that some of them feel forced out. I am grateful for those contributions and am sorry to see such generous people affronted, be it intentionally, or more likely, by complete accident.

This thread started out as a place to comment on changes. I apologize for having led it into the broader category of the spirit of this place, but I figure the two are related. I don't like all of the changes and have already talked about that. I do like the forum-I enjoy aspects beyond mutual admiration and bickering , both. If the evolution of this place is such that it barely resembles what I first knew ( much less what people knew years before I became involved,) well, I guess that is the nature of life.

I am reminded of a great Christian hymn:

Like a mighty army, moves the church of God,

Folks in back complaining, looking slightly odd.

At least I think it goes like that.
Thanks again, all.

MacLL