Civilian Mess Jackets

[macwilkin]

Todd,
The US Army just "discontinued" the service whites (the uniform on that link) from the inventory about 3 years ago in the same change message where they published the the transition guidance from the green Class A uniform to the new ASU (essentially a modified version of the old dress blue uniform). Until that time we had a white uniform that was cut nearly identical to the green uniform...but nobody wore it, which is probably why they got rid of it.

The did, however, keep the white mess uniform and evening mess uniform as an authorized evening uniform (probably for senior level officers who attend summertime joint service dining functions where many personnel from other services may be wearing a white uniform). It's a sharp uniform and only costs about $350 for the jacket and pants. Jacket is a white mess jacket cut exactly the same as the blue mess jacket but with same colored lapels (instead of the traditional branch colored satin). Pants are high-waisted black flat-front tux pants with a black satin stripe down the outseam. The differentiation between the mess and evening mess are black tie, pleated shirt, cummerbund vs. white tie, stiff front shirt, and white waistcoat.

Good to know. I'm surprised the service whites lasted as long as they did.

T.

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

I can get behind the SSR movement; though you might want to let the Australian armed forces know that bit about not wearing cummerbunds with kilts!

I suspect that officers (as opposed to the other ranks) probably don't wear cummerbunds, but ya never can tell...

I'm not as opposed to a red bow tie as MacMillan of Rathdown, but I really only see it being worn with RSR (and have worn one as such during my days of playing in band).

Bands? Yes, I agree whole-heartedly that red bow ties are proper to wear if one is in a dance band... It may just be a local thing, but virtually all of the caterers these days also put red bow ties on their staff...

And as long as we're on the subject, I've always been under the impression that a cummerbund is worn with the pleats pointing up, though it appears the US military's regulations are for downward-pointing pleats.

Can't speak for the other branches of service, but that's what the Army does.

[longhuntr74]

Can't speak for the other branches of service, but that's what the Army does.

Why is that Scott? I'm mean, I'm in the Army...but I don't know why regulations specify to wear the cummerbund upside-down. I had already noticed this discrepancy about a year or two ago. Is it just that somebody was a moron when it was written and they didn't know the proper way (wouldn't surprise me, by the way)?

[CMcG]

Nothing like a THCD thread to get the rabble going, eh?

For those still interested in a white mess jacket with the kilt, I found another picture from Down Under. This is from the so-called "Principality of Hutt River" and is still technically military dress... civilian mess jackets seem to be hard to find Note the cummerbund again!

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

Why is that Scott? I'm mean, I'm in the Army...but I don't know why regulations specify to wear the cummerbund upside-down. I had already noticed this discrepancy about a year or two ago. Is it just that somebody was a moron when it was written and they didn't know the proper way (wouldn't surprise me, by the way)?

Moron... that's my guess too. When I was in I always wore my cummerbund the right way up; something to do with being an officer and a gentleman. The gentleman part of me just wouldn't allow me to wear my cummerbund upside down.

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

Scott,

I don't see any reference in the aforementioned article from the CCSNA to the Highland variant of RSR using a kilt:

"Tartan trews are worn with an evening long sleeved shirt and black bow tie."

T.

In the bit you quoted in your post it goes on to say:

"The civilian version is usually a long sleeve white dress shirt, black or red bow tie and kilt.

S.

[longhuntr74]

Moron... that's my guess too. When I was in I always wore my cummerbund the right way up; something to do with being an officer and a gentleman. The gentleman part of me just wouldn't allow me to wear my cummerbund upside down.

Funny...good insight!

On a separate note...somebody mentioned wearing a belt as opposed to a cummerbund back a page or two ago and a response explained that a dirk belt is the same as a kilt belt. I won't debate that point, but wanted to expound on it a bit.

Most kilt belts (especially the cheaper ones) are unfinished on the back side. If you are buying a kilt belt for formal wear, I would encourage you to buy one that is lined (red leather is common) or one that is custom made and has been painstakingly finished on the inside as well as the outside.

[macwilkin]

In the bit you quoted in your post it goes on to say:

"The civilian version is usually a long sleeve white dress shirt, black or red bow tie and kilt.

S.

Aha! That would explain that. I would tend to agree that RSR does not work with a kilt.

T.

[Cygnus]

...
If you see a white jacket in the civilian world, most of the time it will be a white dinner jacket. Very classy. Anybody ever seen a white mess jacket outside of military uniforms, ship crew uniforms, or wait staff?

This is true, but the equivalent of a white dinner jacket would be a white Argyll, and those are much harder to come by!

[Cygnus]

Funny...good insight!

On a separate note...somebody mentioned wearing a belt as opposed to a cummerbund back a page or two ago and a response explained that a dirk belt is the same as a kilt belt. I won't debate that point, but wanted to expound on it a bit.

Most kilt belts (especially the cheaper ones) are unfinished on the back side. If you are buying a kilt belt for formal wear, I would encourage you to buy one that is lined (red leather is common) or one that is custom made and has been painstakingly finished on the inside as well as the outside.

Another good point - this is an especially good idea because, with highland dress, the kilt belt will be worn over a dark kilt, doublet, or waistcoat. If the back is unfinished, you will often find a thin line of unfinished leather being visible against the darker background.