Clan mottoes...

[Panache]

I think you Googled wrongly.

The MacLeod of Harris motto is 'Hold Fast' and the MacLeod of Lewis motto is 'I Burn While I See'.

Hmmm...

scotclan.com has it listed as "I shine not burn"

wikipedia.com has it as ""I shine but I do not burn"

The Clan Mcleod society at www.macleodpacific.org has it untranslated as
"I Birn Quhil I Se"

The problem with doing research online, as someone at X Marks once remarked, is that the internet is a vast sea of information that is on average only an inch deep.

I wonder what the definative source is?

Cheers

[Andrew Green]

In the instance of researching clan information online:
There is a lot of information out there, some of it will conflict, or not be thorough enough. The authoritative answers?
Your Clan's society I would say, talk to the clan convener, or perhaps the clan historian, or the High Commissioner for your area. Failing that, your heritage Clan Book would be a good source, at least one that is a recent printing: I have two Gordon clan books, one produced in the 50's or early 60's, and then one that has been produced in the early 80's, and while both are interesting, many of the names/septs that are in the later edition, are not in the older one, although the older one has more in depth clan history. Just an example of how information has been added to the small volume over time.
electricscotland is a decent source of information online as well... but that is going by online criteria only. It's great when backed up with more sources.

[macwilkin]

I'll second Andrew's suggestion to go straight to the national/international organization; many clan socities have clan historians/sennachies, etc. who specialize in this very thing, as well as clan museums, heritage centers, etc.

Here's one page to look that is the best source for the translation, INMHO:

http://www.clanmacleod.org/about-mac...nd-tartans.php

This web page is for the worldwide Associated Clan MacLeod Societies.

Cheers,

Todd

[Panache]

Todd and Andrew,

Thanks for the suggestions & links. To make it more confusing my wife is a Nicol which is often listed as a sept of clan Mcleod of Lewis. (as Nicol, Nicolson, McNicol, etc.) Odd that she can be both of clan McNicol and Mcleod through the same bloodline. It's all quite interesting stuff. The only experience I have had dealing with the clans themselves has been at the clan tents at the two Highland Games I've attended (and found everyone to be friendly and informative).

Cheers

[Cawdorian]

The only sure way you can tell which clan you might belong to is to see if you can find the place of birth or death in Scotland of your Scottish ancestors who lived during the period from 1600 to 1700. If the two clans were in the same general geographic area, it may still be difficult to determine which clan is correct. The clan association is the best place to start.

There is a map on www.electricscotland.com that will give you the approximate geographic locations of the clan during this period of time.

[Johnny Celtic]

For my mother and clan Montgomery: ''look well''

[Red Lioness]

In all the places I've checked, MacBeth Clan has no listed motto. Oh well. . . .

[gilmore]

The only sure way you can tell which clan you might belong to is to see if you can find the place of birth or death in Scotland of your Scottish ancestors who lived during the period from 1600 to 1700. If the two clans were in the same general geographic area, it may still be difficult to determine which clan is correct. The clan association is the best place to start.

There is a map on www.electricscotland.com that will give you the approximate geographic locations of the clan during this period of time.

I agree. The only way to be certain of which clan you belong to (whatever that means in the 21st century), is to follow the paper trail back to Scotland.

There is also DNA testing, which MAY show you a probability as to which clan you descend from. See: http://www.familytreedna.com

[gilmore]

The only sure way you can tell which clan you might belong to is to see if you can find the place of birth or death in Scotland of your Scottish ancestors who lived during the period from 1600 to 1700. If the two clans were in the same general geographic area, it may still be difficult to determine which clan is correct. The clan association is the best place to start.

There is a map on www.electricscotland.com that will give you the approximate geographic locations of the clan during this period of time.

As to clan associations and lists of septs, I would advise being wary. Some cast a wide net and include every possible sept and variant, no matter how obscure or unlikely the connection. These days it sometimes happens that a very common name, but one with few connections to a particular clan, will be included in its list of septs. This may increase membership in that clan association and bring in more revenue for it, but can also perpetuate misinformation that is relied upon detrimentally for generations.

[MacWage]

As to clan associations and lists of septs, I would advise being wary. Some cast a wide net and include every possible sept and variant, no matter how obscure or unlikely the connection. These days it sometimes happens that a very common name, but one with few connections to a particular clan, will be included in its list of septs. This may increase membership in that clan association and bring in more revenue for it, but can also perpetuate misinformation that is relied upon detrimentally for generations.

THAT is the very reason I hesitate on any septs. A number of them are legit, though many are seemingly "parceled out at random." I just prefer to see SOME real tie between the sept and clan.

As for MacBeth-> "Out, Out Spot!" ( :rolleyes: just kidding-> that play has done more damage and spread more bad history that almost ANY in the last 500 years.)

Actually, Macbeth was the last of the truly "celtic" kings of Scotland (meaning elected and ruling in the "traditional" Dalridic/Irish manner) AND a facinating person who recieved reputation assassination at the hands of certain English historians (such as Holinshed-> sp?) with a point to make (namely English over-lordship of Scotland).