What hat with a PC?

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

If one won't remove their shoes indoors in public, why must someone else remove their hat?

Manners isn't about "WILL" or "WON'T", but rather all about "SHOULD" and SHOULDN'T".

Cross cultural arguments aside-- by and large we do not live in Japan or Saudi Arabia, we live in a society that is largely Western European in context and therefor we should conform to the social manners of our cultural community.

Good manners are just that; Good Manners. Removing one's hat indoors is a sign of good manners. Failure to do so, for whatever reason one cares to come up with (other than a strict religious observance), is nothing more than bad manners.

[haxtonhouse]

excuse my ignorance, but what is a"PC"?

[Bugbear]

In other words, finding out what the expectations and custums of your host, hosts, or cultural setting considers proper, then folowing that out of respect.

You are right, Ted, with regards to the PC, but in Scotland the "silver button" Argyll is really only appropriate for a less formal evening or early-evening than would require a tux (for those not usually kilted, think of your very best business suit). ...

I am still confused about this Argyle with three button waistcoat issue because I thought that was acceptable as black tie attire.

[McMurdo]

excuse my ignorance, but what is a"PC"?

PC is short for Prince Charlie coatee below is a photo of me in mine

[haxtonhouse]

Thanks, that makes perfect sense!

[Spartan]

Wow! I skipped over this thread until this afternoon, when I took time to read it all through. Some good stuff here that's very helpful.

Now, I'm going to speak as a clergy person. Being in a liturgical tradition, what I wear for the marriage service would not be an issue, as I would be wearing vestments appropriate to my tradition (Anglican/Episcopal). Almost all weddings in which I officiate would be in an air conditioned church building. What I wear for the reception would be the issue.

I don't believe that I would wear a kilt at all, unless it is a kilted wedding and/or the wedding couple want me to wear a kilt. This is their day, not mine. They should be the center of attention. Even as a guest at a wedding, I'm not sure that I would wear a kilt, again, unless the couple, knowing me, requested it. When you wear a kilt to an event, it does draw attention. It is out of the norm of what most people expect. If people normally only see you in a kilt, that could be different.

If I were to wear a kilt to a wedding, I think that I need to consider whether or not a PC is appropriate attire for a guest. I don't recall ever seeing anyone at a wedding wearing a tuxedo, outside of the wedding party/family. So, I think that if I were to wear a kilt to a wedding, I would choose an Argyle coat to go with it. If it is an event for which other guests would be wearing formal attire, then go for the PC to go with the kilt.

I think that there can be exceptions to rules as well. When we had a Kirkin' o' the Tartan at our church, I wore a PC after the service, in the morning. Maybe not correct, but for the occasion, I think ok. But then, I didn't know any better. Maybe by the next time I'll have a black Argyle with silver buttons!

As a complete aside, I've often noticed how uncomfortable some men in wedding parties are in their tuxes. Many are out of their tux jackets before the reception hardly begins.

These are just some thoughts of mine.

[English Bloke]

... 5000 ft + in elevation, during the spring and summer (high wedding season) many weddings are later in the afternoon when the sun (due to Daylight Savings) is still very much in effect. At 5000 + ft ( 1600 meters) the UV Will burn the hide off a baseball. Needless to say the cause of this Thread...

It's often said on here that one must know and understand the rules fully before one chooses to break them. That, I suppose is why you are here asking this question. It is also said on here that providing one wears the kilt with respect then all manner of variation is OK. That, I suppose is why you post here and engage with like minded members with views that spread from from tradtional to contemporary. The advice and assistance one can obtain from this forum is endless but how rigidly one applies the given advice is entirely up to you.

I've read some of your previous posts and I believe you officiate at weddings with a highland slant.

I think you have a few options here. You can either follow the traditionalist advice and let your pate turn into a hamburger or you could buy a tube of factor 50 and perhaps a cheap Gazebo to chuck in the boot (trunk) of your car. You'd also have to leave your brand new PC in the wardrobe and get an Argyll and a 5 button AND 3 button waistcoat or... you could buy the factor 50 and put it in your pocket and also a balmoral / glengarry (whichever you prefer) and chuck that in the back of the car. If the occasion warrants no headdress, apply factor 50, if it does, apply hat.

The advice given here is all delivered with the best intent and it's not intended to confuse but there is such a vast array of opinion on what IS proper or acceptable that opinions are bound to differ widely.

I personally think if you are conducting weddings you are at work. You should not risk injury to yourself in your work environment so if you want a reasonable explanation for why you are wearing a hat in the blazing NM sun, it's because you HAVE to, it's a piece of personal protection equipment (PPE). The wedding party's exposure to the extremes you describe in the quote above is once. Yours is weekly possibly more. I think you'd be daft NOT to wear a hat when outside.

If I were you I'd go for a Balmoral in plain black, without hackle or dicing or any other bells and whistles and although I think Glengarries are great, I do think they are very military looking and that isn't (perhaps) the image you want to project. Just because you are wearing a balmoral hat doesn't mean you are at Balmoral Castle. You must adapt convention to suit your circumstance in my opinion.

If you haven't bought a hat yet, there are a couple of ebayers (from the US site) who do fairly cheap ones here: Carse of Gowrie Kilts and Fredonline321

I have a balmoral and a glengarry from Carse of Gowrie they are both fine. Haven't dealt with Fredonline so can't comment. I bought mine in my 'gotta have it' phase when I first started kilting. I hardly wear them now. Sometimes put the Balmoral on if it's freezing or err... raining hard (it's always bloody raining here!). Again, MY circumstances are not the same as yours.

One more thing... under NO circumstances use a Parasoll!! EVER!! even if you head is a ball of flames!

We 'climbing gold panther' kilt pin owners need to stick together mate.

[BroosterB1]

Right, I didn't realize the can o worms I opened with a simple question. Here's what I have decided to do:

Regardless of right or wrong I am going to use the PC until such time as I either need the 3 or 5 button Argyle; I think it looks sharp and as long as I don't go over the top (fly, broach, diceed hose) I should not out shine the bride (fat chance for a 240 lbs, 50 year old bald guy in a kilt to out shine a nubile young thang). If at such time I need a less/more formal outfit we will cross that bridge when we get there.

SPC 50 works for me, as will a nice plain balmoral. For travel to and from events, and if the flaming orb gets too intense.

Under no circumstances will I use a parasol, cloth or paper. I have enough problems explaining the testicular heritage of the kilt, much less that of the High Victorian Parasol; too many images of the Elite Parasol Drill and Parade Team flood in; Parasols, pith helmets, tan shirts, Royal Stewart kilts, French mil boots with white/cream spats......and waxed mustaches.

Now there's an image....

Golden Pather-Kilt Pin Owners Unite!

[Spartan]

Under no circumstances will I use a parasol, cloth or paper. I have enough problems explaining the testicular heritage of the kilt, much less that of the High Victorian Parasol; too many images of the Elite Parasol Drill and Parade Team flood in; Parasols, pith helmets, tan shirts, Royal Stewart kilts, French mil boots with white/cream spats......and waxed mustaches.

Now there's an image....

Man, I can't get my mind around that image!

[English Bloke]

Man, I can't get my mind around that image!

You're LUCKY!! I can't get that image out of my mind.