Reality Check

[Kett]

I will throw my $0.02 in.

My husband and I ended up as members here because he wanted a kilt (ok, I begged him to get one and thus the story and kilt addiction unfolds) and we wanted to know where you get one. In the process we've learned lots of dos and don'ts and have a fine list of potential vendors for future purchases.

You can't expect every vendor on the planet to be a member of every website forum. It's not realistic. Not everyone LIKES the internet and lives on forums, and a vendor could not possibly find all the applicable sites anyway.

This forum is wonderful for open, honest feedback on products from different vendors. The fact that there are diehard supporters of certain vendors, including but not limited to Kathy Lare, lets me add to the list of potential purchases. The open, honest feedback of dissatisfied customers, lets me put question marks beside those vendors.

In any "try so-and-so, you'll love them" post I've never taken that as they are the one and only - I've just taken it as a recommendation to check them out.

Ok, maybe that was $0.03 or $0.04.

[Riverkilt]

Apparently Kathy's kilt numbering system different for individual and band/wedding kilts.

I've been informed that she's actually hand sewn over 4,800 kilts. That's not the point of this thread, but did want to correct my error.

Ron

[ForresterModern]

Apparently Kathy's kilt numbering system different for individual and band/wedding kilts.

I've been informed that she's actually hand sewn over 4,800 kilts. That's not the point of this thread, but did want to correct my error.

Ron

Well now the truth comes out. Would anybody here on the forum REALLY want a kilt made by somebody with that "limited" (tongue firmly implanted in cheek) training they get at the Keith School and who has ONLY made a measly 4800 or so handsewn kilts in their career (tongue even MORE firmly planted in cheek). Sorry, I want somebody with at least a little experience and training. From hence forth Ron I will respectfully have to seriously reconsider my confidence in your recommendations of Kathy Lare as a kiltmaker for possible future projects.

Respectfully

Jeff :ootd:

[vipermcgee]

Ron,
I would have to say I value your opinion of any kiltmaker. I have little experience with kilts, and you have a world of research and experience to draw from. I have seen you pictured on at least one site outside XMarks. I purchased my kilt from them and have nothing but good to say.

I should also mention that you took the little jabs I made early on with the ut-most of grace. And returned with a whit matched by none. This is what draws me to your opinion most of all.

I hope I make sense here. If anyone is offended by your opinion, or mine, or anyone elses, they have the freedom to post their own! That is the beauty of such a forum as XMarks!

You are a great guy and I am honored to call you "Friend". I would only ask my friends for advice on something as personal as a kilt.

Robert

[Jack Daw]

I have not been shy about endorsing Kathy Lare a few times. My Buchanan Hunting was made by her and I've shown several pics of that fine kilt on this forum.

I say keep speaking your opinion, Ron.

[McClef]

There is a fine line between reviews and individual endorsements and what might be construed as unpaid advertising. Ron's enthusiasm for Kathy's work is well-known as is the enthusiasm of other members for other kilt makers.

But it does need to be in proportion - remember it's the sponsors who pay that enable this site to exist. Publicising a PM that generates this amount and level of discussion could be construed as free publicity and giving an unfair advantage especially when she isn't even a member. That's her right and choice of course and she is unlikely to know the rules or be responsible for the enthusiasm of her patrons.

"Concerning personal forum member Advertisements on X Marks the Scot

Statement of Intent-

X Marks the Scot prides itself on the diversity of the skilled craftsmen and artists who make up the membership of our forum. These individuals contribute much in the wealth of experience they freely share with the forum. We hold these individuals in high esteem. Our valued forum sponsors pay to advertise their businesses here and by so doing allow this forum to exist. We hold in equally high regard those that have invested in us and it is our desire to see that this investment is one worthy of their commitment.

Therefore it is the intent of the owner and moderating staff of X Marks the Scot to present guidelines that allow for the creativity and entrepreneurial spirit of the forum members as well as protect the interests of our sponsors.

Those individuals interested in advertising with X Marks the Scot are encouraged to contact any of the moderating staff by personal message (PM) and current advertising rates will be provided.

Those craftsmen and artists wishing to include a link to their wares and services are welcome to do so.

Individuals attempting to bypass the intent of these guidelines for the purpose of using X Marks the Scot for advertising without permission or payment will be subject to user infraction, restriction, or being banned as deemed appropriate by the moderating staff."

Just trying to ask for balance and keeping within the spirit of the rules.

[Spartan]

There is a fine line between reviews and individual endorsements and what might be construed as unpaid advertising. Ron's enthusiasm for Kathy's work is well-known as is the enthusiasm of other members for other kilt makers.

But it does need to be in proportion - remember it's the sponsors who pay that enable this site to exist. Publicising a PM that generates this amount and level of discussion could be construed as free publicity and giving an unfair advantage especially when she isn't even a member. That's her right and choice of course and she is unlikely to know the rules or be responsible for the enthusiasm of her patrons.

"Concerning personal forum member Advertisements on X Marks the Scot

Statement of Intent-

X Marks the Scot prides itself on the diversity of the skilled craftsmen and artists who make up the membership of our forum. These individuals contribute much in the wealth of experience they freely share with the forum. We hold these individuals in high esteem. Our valued forum sponsors pay to advertise their businesses here and by so doing allow this forum to exist. We hold in equally high regard those that have invested in us and it is our desire to see that this investment is one worthy of their commitment.

Therefore it is the intent of the owner and moderating staff of X Marks the Scot to present guidelines that allow for the creativity and entrepreneurial spirit of the forum members as well as protect the interests of our sponsors.

Those individuals interested in advertising with X Marks the Scot are encouraged to contact any of the moderating staff by personal message (PM) and current advertising rates will be provided.

Those craftsmen and artists wishing to include a link to their wares and services are welcome to do so.

Individuals attempting to bypass the intent of these guidelines for the purpose of using X Marks the Scot for advertising without permission or payment will be subject to user infraction, restriction, or being banned as deemed appropriate by the moderating staff."

Just trying to ask for balance and keeping within the spirit of the rules.

I would be surprised if Kathy Lare has ever asked to have her name used in this or any other forum. I don't believe that there is any intention on Kathy's part to "bypass the intent of these guidelines."

Like Ron, I sing the praise of Kathy's skill and work, and will continue to do so. Her prices are reasonable and her craftsmanship exceptional.

[McClef]

Spartan - my post was carefully phrased to in no way imply that Kathy was involved in this, simply to point out a concern to members about how they should handle what is effectively free advertising when a supplier is mentioned too frequently and prominently when they are not a sponsor of this site.

Where would the site be if our sponsors pulled out because they have enough enthusiastic members bringing them to the attention of the site for free?

The rules are addressed to members and I repeat:

"Therefore it is the intent of the owner and moderating staff of X Marks the Scot to present guidelines that allow for the creativity and entrepreneurial spirit of the forum members as well as protect the interests of our sponsors."

So for a non forum member to get so much coverage (albeit not at their own behest) is, IMHO, against the spirit of the rules. The onus is on the forum members to keep a balance.

Hope this clarifies what I was trying to say.

[Rex_Tremende]

Trefor, can you illustrate an example of balance between keeping to the spirit of the rules and speaking to one's experience?

Regards,
Rex.

[Panache]

Had the Mod Squad determined that Ron had been engaged in de facto advertising he would have been officially contacted and informed to stop this with an approriate warning or penalty by the Mod Squad.

This thread is about Ron parapharasing a PM sent to him by a friend.

Based on the way Ron has presented it I rather doubt this person considers Ron a friend any longer.

It is worth noting that we are hearing only one version, from one side, of a private conversation.

Respectfully

Jamie :ootd: