Scots-Irish

[Lyle1]

It seems that a lot of North Americans use the term for your situation rather than its historical meaning.
Although can I ask, if your ancestors from Glasgow instead came from, say Paris, would you describe yourself as French-Irish?

Yes, most people would!

[ctbuchanan]

Estimates vary of course, but the numbers most often sited report that in the 1790 US Census there were 160,000 individuals who claimed Scottish ancestry and 320,000 individuals who claimed "Scotch-Irish" ancestry in the US with the majority of those located in North Carolina.

In the 2000 US Census, of those who self reported their ancestry there were 4,890,000 of Scottish ancestry and 4,310,000 of "Scotch-Irish" ancestry. The entire population of Scotland was around 5,200,000 in 2010.

This helps to explain is one small way the widespread interest in all things Scottish here in the USA.

[Lyle1]

I can't see if anyone answered this before, but has there been any preservation of the Ulster-Scots traditions in their descendants? If they tended not to move around much, or mix with any other ethinicities, then did they retain thier cultural identities?

For example, is Ulster-Scots spoken to any degree among the community today?

For example, is Ulster-Scots spoken to any degree among the community today?[/QUOTE]

I have never heard of an Ulster-Scot cultural heritage in America in the way that we speak of Italian, Greek, or other cultures. Was there an Ulster-Scot heritage that was distinct from a Scots heritage? Remember, the Ulster-Scots in the 1700's were subjects of the British crown, so assimilation would have been easier than for other nationalities. Also, I think the great awareness of ancestral culture is a fairly recent phenomenon in the U.S., probably dating back to the great waves of immigration from non-English speaking countries that occurred in the late 1800's and early to mid 1900'S.

As to intermarriage, I would assume that, at least in the early days, it would have depended on where the Ulster-Scots settled. Great waves entered through the port of Philadelphia, went west 60 or 70 miles, and turned south for Virginia and the Carolina's. Perhaps those people had enough Ulster-Scots neighbors that it was possible to continue marrying your own kind. Lesser numbers (though still sizable numbers), did not go to the southern colonies. One of my McDowell ancestors (7th ggf) stayed in Pennsylvania while his brothers went south to Virginia; when his children married, there was a scarcity of Ulster-Scots in the area, let alone any Irvine's, the natural first choice for a McDowell. My 6th ggf did marry a Hanna, but there was a lot of intermarriage with other nationalities, particularly, with the many German settlers in the area.

[ctbuchanan]

I think the fact that the bulk of the Ulster-Scots who came to the Americas arrived in the 18th and early 19th century will have pretty much watered down any early cultural identity that they had. They did leave a rich legacy including fried chicken, blue grass music, the Baptist church etc. I have spoken with many people from the south-east on into the mid-south who have clearly Scottish surnames and quite a few will say that they thought they came from Ireland, albeit the northern counties and immigrated during the later colonial period.

Is the current Southern US accent a Scots-Irish one in origin? I don't know. I do know that many Scots-Irish also came to Nova Scotia and New Brunswick and they don't talk at all like someone from South Carolina so anecdotally I would tend to think not.

But it is interesting to note that the grandpapy of all highland games at Grandfather Mountain was started by all those Scots-Irish down in the Blue Ridge and Shenandoah.

[Blackrose87]

Estimates vary of course, but the numbers most often sited report that in the 1790 US Census there were 160,000 individuals who claimed Scottish ancestry and 320,000 individuals who claimed "Scotch-Irish" ancestry in the US with the majority of those located in North Carolina.

In the 2000 US Census, of those who self reported their ancestry there were 4,890,000 of Scottish ancestry and 4,310,000 of "Scotch-Irish" ancestry. The entire population of Scotland was around 5,200,000 in 2010.

This helps to explain is one small way the widespread interest in all things Scottish here in the USA.

The population of Ulster in 2011 is 1.8 million. Probably just under half of these people would be considered of Ulster-Scots heritage.
It's seems that either the Ulster-Scots who left flourished amazingly in America, or a lot of Americans are finding strenuous links back to Ulster.

I have never heard of an Ulster-Scot cultural heritage in America in the way that we speak of Italian, Greek, or other cultures. Was there an Ulster-Scot heritage that was distinct from a Scots heritage?

Well, yes there are distinct differences, the language being the most obvious. There are various pipe bands with lambeg drums etc. I'm not an expert in their culture, and have only experienced a few of the traditions first hand, but from my perspective I'd say their culture involves honouring their Scottish ancestry, but being influenced by their Irish surroundings.

Remember, the Ulster-Scots in the 1700's were subjects of the British crown, so assimilation would have been easier than for other nationalities.

Ulster-Scots today would still consider themselves subjects of the British crown

[MacLowlife]

[QUOTE=Blackrose87;1085641]The population of Ulster in 2011 is 1.8 million. Probably just under half of these people would be considered of Ulster-Scots heritage.
It's seems that either the Ulster-Scots who left flourished amazingly in America, or a lot of Americans are finding strenuous links back to Ulster. [QUOTE]

Actually, I suspect it is both.


And Wikipedia says this:
Scotch-Irish (or Scots-Irish) Americans are the descendants of an estimated 250,000 Presbyterian and other Protestant dissenters from the Irish province of Ulster who immigrated to North America primarily during the colonial era.[2] Some scholars also include the 150,000 Ulster Protestants who immigrated to America during the early 19th century, and their descendants.[citation needed] Most of the Scotch-Irish were descended from Scottish and English families who colonized Ireland during the Plantation of Ulster in the 17th century.[3] While an estimated 36 million Americans (12% of the total population) reported Irish ancestry in 2006, and 6 million (2% of the population) reported Scottish ancestry,[4] an additional 5.4 million (1.8% of the population) identified more specifically with Scotch-Irish ancestry. People in Great Britain or Ireland that are of a similar ancestry usually refer to themselves as Ulster Scots, with the term Scotch-Irish used only in North America.[5]


^ U.S. Census Bureau, 2008
^ Scholarly estimates vary, but here are a few: "more than a quarter-million", Fischer, David Hackett, Albion's Seed: Four British Folkways in America Oxford University Press, USA (March 14, 1989), pg. 606; "200,000", Rouse, Parke Jr., The Great Wagon Road, Dietz Press, 2004, pg. 32; "...250,000 people left for America between 1717 and 1800...20,000 were Anglo-Irish, 20,000 were Gaelic Irish, and the remainder Ulster-Scots or Scotch-Irish...", Blethen, H.T. & Wood, C.W., From Ulster to Carolina, North Carolina Division of Archives and History, 2005, pg. 22; "more than 100,000", Griffin, Patrick, The People with No Name, Princeton University Press, 2001, pg 1; "200,000", Leyburn, James G., The Scotch-Irish: A Social History, University of North Carolina Press, 1962, pg. 180; "225,000", Hansen, Marcus L., The Atlantic Migration, 1607–1860, Cambridge, Mass, 1940, pg. 41; "250,000", Dunaway, Wayland F. The Scotch-Irish of Colonial Pennsylvania, Genealogical Publishing Co (1944), pg. 41; "300,000", Barck, O.T. & Lefler, H.T., Colonial America, New York (1958), pg. 285.
^ Robinson, Philip, The Plantation of Ulster, St. Martin's Press, 1984, ppg. 109-128
^ "U.S. Census". U.S. Census Bureau. Retrieved 2008-04-13.
^ a b c Leyburn 1962, p. 327.
^ Calendar of Patent and Close Rolls of Chancery, as cited in Leyburn, op. cit., 329.

[davidlpope]

I can't see if anyone answered this before, but has there been any preservation of the Ulster-Scots traditions in their descendants? If they tended not to move around much, or mix with any other ethinicities, then did they retain thier cultural identities?

For example, is Ulster-Scots spoken to any degree among the community today?

No, not in a distinct form. They mixed early with other ethnicities and their distinct culture was lost. As mentioned before, aspects of their culture have been retained (language, music) in Southern culture.

[davidlpope]

a lot of Americans are finding strenuous links back to Ulster.

Yes, exactly, although perhaps you meant tenuous...

[Bugbear]

The real question, MacLowlife, is how did the Scots-Irish contribute to the Blues?

[SlackerDrummer]

The real question, MacLowlife, is how did the Scots-Irish contribute to the Blues?

By owning slaves?