Where to get a high quality Ghillie Shirt (100% cotton)

[OC Richard]

Personally I would prefer the present-day musician to be clad in a more up to date outfit. That way the spectators will get an idea what more modern kilt attire is about and in consequence, the audience get a reminder that modern kilt attire is relevant to today.

That's the thing, musicians have to dress according to the gig.

We have bands here that plays American Civil War music on original instruments. Their band-books are reprints of an 1863 original. They're hired to play at Civil War events. They're not going to show up modern outfits.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hO_P3ONXtAk

We have bands that play Revolutionary War music. They play at 18th century themed events. The idea isn't to show the spectators what modern clothing looks like, it's to re-create a historical period.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPqzxY4rUGI

And more to the point, a Renaissance themed dance and the musicians expected to look the part

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXZrT4fMgFk

[jsrnephdoc]

Exactly so, to us pipers a smart outfit is expected, required, whenever we perform on the pipes.

It's parallel to the orchestra musician's tuxedo. It's very common for musicians to be expected to look a certain way, not only clothes but hair styles etc.

I'd comment that slavish adherence to convention CAN be boring, with little accents meant as humor accepted in the manner they're presented.

For example, the Conductor/Music Director of the Bozeman Symphony Orchestra is young, vigorous (rides his motorcycle in the mountains, etc.) and widely respected (he recently conducted the New York Philharmonic at Lincoln Center). But, here at home, if there's the equivalent of a "Pops" or "family" concert; e.g., with movie soundtracks, or a family holiday concert, he'll wear his tux, but his shirt will also be black, and his shoes ALARMINGLY pricey brilliant red sneakers (my authority on this point is my college student grandson, who tolerated the music at a recent concert but was REALLY impressed by those sneakers. And, the converse of this is that the music director knows and remembers who I am (including talking to me about my emails) during after-concert receptions, and the major reason for that is NOT that I have a huge amount of classical music knowledge or ANY ability as a performer, but that I show up for the concerts typically in "business dress" kilted outfits (tie, waistcoat, Argyll jacket—or perhaps a nice cable knit sweater atop a tattersall dress shirt), and when at the more formal end of that range, either American business brogues or Ghillie Brogues.

Everybody LOVES the way he dresses, and I get respectful questions and compliments at every concert. One college student even drifted into jealousy when I informed him that Barb Tewksbury was making me a kilt!

[Panache]

After a discussion with a fellow costumer for my Scottish dance group I wanted to share a two final thoughts on the ghillie/pirate/swashbuckler shirt with you, that adds to why their look is so popular.

They are very flattering to a wide variety of body types.

Exceptionally skinny? The pirate shirt hides that.

Waistline expanding? The pirate shirt hides that.

So besides being comfortable (which they are) and having a certain amount of flair (which they do) they are flattering to the wearer in terms of fit.

My last thought is simply that a lot of the really wonderful looks for highland attire require a jacket or doublet to get the top part of one’s ensemble to look as “Scottish” as the lower half. The poofy shirt fits the bill without the far greater cost and completes the look. (Whether that “look” is authentic or not isn’t the issue, it is the perception of completing it that matters.)

Fun discussion BTB

Cheers

Jamie

[jsrnephdoc]

After a discussion with a fellow costumer for my Scottish dance group I wanted to share a two final thoughts on the ghillie/pirate/swashbuckler shirt with you, that adds to why their look is so popular.

They are very flattering to a wide variety of body types.

Exceptionally skinny? The pirate shirt hides that.

Waistline expanding? The pirate shirt hides that.

So besides being comfortable (which they are) and having a certain amount of flair (which they do) they are flattering to the wearer in terms of fit.

My last thought is simply that a lot of the really wonderful looks for highland attire require a jacket or doublet to get the top part of one’s ensemble to look as “Scottish” as the lower half. The poofy shirt fits the bill without the far greater cost and completes the look. (Whether that “look” is authentic or not isn’t the issue, it is the perception of completing it that matters.)

This (and probably several other discussions on this forum) distill down to a tension among

1. What looks good
2. What's "authentic" (either as contemporary or historical dress)
3. Where is it being worn

Perhaps, if the justification for (for example, a "Ghillie" shirt that never a Ghillie would have worn is just to have something on above the waist, there probably ARE other alternatives. For example, in my own case I've lost a LOT of weight over the past year or two. One of my kilts has had its straps moved as much as possible, and the only way I can wear it is with buttons on the waistband and suspenders attached to the buttons. Without them, it just falls off my body.

Others have provided examples of "historical" shirts that could pair with the kilt, but that wouldn't hide the suspenders, which I guess are a complete "no no" for being revealed in public. If the rest of the outfit is contemporary, a simple tweed waistcoat can hide the suspenders in settings where a tweed jacket up top would be uncomfortable or "over the top."

And, if your dancing group or Highlands Games gathering is here in the US, probably few people would complain about the inaccuracy of your dress anyway.

JMO

[Janner52]

This (and probably several other discussions on this forum) distill down to a tension among

1. What looks good
2. What's "authentic" (either as contemporary or historical dress)
3. Where is it being worn

The kilt is a versatile garment and as such may be worn in any circumstances from white tie to hillwalking.
I am not sure if authenticity comes into it unless you are trying to recreate some historical event.

What looks good is probably a matter for the individual to decide and we have seen some examples of individuals who are not too good at making that decision. In my humble opinion as an Englishman, with a military background, the important thing is to wear the kilt in a way that looks like you have made an effort to learn how to do that correctly and does not insult the kilt or the highlanders who are rightly proud of their heritage.

The choice of upper body garments obviously depends on where or why. The more formal options, white/black tie lounge suit (a dated terminology) and sports jacket all have their modern equivalent designed for the kilt. Other than that pullovers, shirts long or short sleeved, polo shirts and T shirts (see tartan army) will work in the correct circumstances. In fact most tops or outer garments that would be worn with trousers. Possibly with exception of Hawaian shirts.

My point is with all of these options why would anyone want to attempt to recreate some sort of historical attire? The exceptions being reenactments or themed events.

[MacKenzie]

Promo video from Scotland's Wild.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/FT-uB5_JPeA

[User]

Promo video from Scotland's Wild.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/FT-uB5_JPeA

Those silly Scottish Scots in Scotland and their puffy pirate Jacobite shirts. Don' they know those aren't historically accurate? ;-)

[spr0k3t]

Those silly Scottish Scots in Scotland and their puffy pirate Jacobite shirts. Don' they know those aren't historically accurate? ;-)

Depends on how far back you research. One of the oldest known paintings with Mongo Murray wearing a kilt had a puffy sleeved shirt. I'm sure it was all for glam as a part of the painting... but yes, nothing like the "Jacobite" shirts of today. I mean, in that period, most paintings were already completed prior to the face portion... so it may have been just a rendition of what the artist would have thought they would wear at the time. A recreation of a shirt from that period might have been a very long (down to the mid-thigh) wearing t-tunic with long sleeves that go just past mid-forearm.

[User]

Depends on how far back you research. One of the oldest known paintings with Mongo Murray wearing a kilt had a puffy sleeved shirt. I'm sure it was all for glam as a part of the painting... but yes, nothing like the "Jacobite" shirts of today. I mean, in that period, most paintings were already completed prior to the face portion... so it may have been just a rendition of what the artist would have thought they would wear at the time. A recreation of a shirt from that period might have been a very long (down to the mid-thigh) wearing t-tunic with long sleeves that go just past mid-forearm.

I was just doing a bit of tongue-in-cheek. I don't claim to know what's historically accurate.
But OC Richard seems firm in his belief that Jacobite shirts aren't historic Scottish attire, and I haven't seen any of the Scottish historians disagree.

https://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/...33#post1410633
And:
https://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/...origins-98430/

[Father Bill]

OC Richard seems firm in his belief that Jacobite shirts aren't historic Scottish attire....

He's far from being the only one.