Can We?

[Magnus Sporrano]

How this freakin' subject KEEPS coming around the kilt sites astounds me!

Because, Jimmy, it is a complex issue with no clear right or wrong answer. No matter how many words you write in all caps, it doesn't make your position any more right or final. We're all going to have opinions on the subject based on many different factors. And not a one of us here is fully qualified on the myriad factors to come up with some sort of final authoritative say on the matter which will kill it.

[macwilkin]

BTW, Prince Charles and the Royal Family are Windsors, have been since King George V changed the name back During WWI. Before that, it was Saxe-Coburg-Gotha, adopted by Queen Victoria in honor of her beloved Albert. Before that, it was simply the House of Hanover. And the Hanovers were descended from Tudors and Stewarts.

So HRH Prince Charles has as much right to wear the kilt as any other thimble Scot, if the right is needed

Doc raises a good point which is germane to the discussion of one "needing" Scottish heritage to wear a tartan kilt -- we tend to forget that the "Scots" are really a mixture of many different types of folks:

The Scotti, originally from Ireland
The Picts
The Vikings
Anglo-Normans (The Bruces, Comyns, Hays, Sinclairs, etc.)

The Irish as well -- Anglo-Normans, Scots, German Palatines, French Huguenots.

Many of the more recent immigrants to Scotland are adopting the kilt & tartan -- the Sikhs & Italians for example.

Cheers,

Todd

[Raphael]

Dario Franchitti (Former CART/F-3000 Driver) in Scozia Tartan.

The idea of a tartan for Italian-Scots was born from the inability of Dumfries kiltmaker, Douglas Anderson to find a suitable tartan for some of his Italian-Scottish friends.

With the strong ties between the two countries in both sport and culture, it seemed appropriate that a tartan be designed featuring the colours of both countries.

- www.andersonkilts.com

[Mike1]

It always struck me as ironic that the Scots who can be embarrassed by or even hostile to kilt wearers in their midst,will accept a Battenberg,descendent of their teutonic conquerors in one.
It may be an indication of how dilute their Celtic blood is.

Seems like you are overly ready to paint all Scots with a pretty wide brush.

[Kilted Kit]

Prince Charles seems a decent chap (if a little woolly minded),obviously loves his kilts and I would be the last to object to that.
However I'm not sure how much his public appearances kilted promotes it as an everyday garment for everyone.
Rather I think he may cement that clannish snobbery which promotes 'entitlement' that one encounters occasionally,for instance,at Highland Gatherings.

[Scotus]

As for kilts, I think it is safe to say there are two schools of thought. One wishes to promote the kilt and see other in it (this school seeems more open to the more modern variations of the kilt); however, the other school is more traditional in outlook, tends to promote Scottish culture more, and isn't interested in promoting the kilt as a garment for everyone.

Kilted, I have never found the Scots to be hostile to people in kilts; moreover, it is probably because of this "clannish" attitude that the kilt has survived at all.

[bear]

You're right, I'm not trying to insult anyone. If anyone does feel insulted by my comments, I apologise.

Not necessary. I don't think I was insulted, so much as I wanted to point out that it could easily be read as insulting.

Nor am I looking down my nose at casual kilts. I think they have their place. The kilt has historically been a practical garment, and if one is going to wear it everyday in all sorts of conditions and for all sorts of tasks, it makes sense to have a knock-around kind of kilt for times when it's appropriate. But I don't see that as a cheapie imitation of a kilt, only a different kind of traditional kilt -- one made with a bit less fabric.

I know that others look down their noses at casual kilts, even going so far to call them skirts if they're not made in Scotland, in wool, and very expensive. I run into these people all the time because Vancouver has a huge Scottish population.

I think quite a few people DO confuse these inferior kilts with the real thing, to the extent that they will tell themselves it's 'good enough' to wear because it's cheap enough to buy without having to save up for it. That's what I decry, because good kiltmakers can't thrive in that atmosphere, and without traditional kiltmakers producing a quality garment made with quality materials, the traditional kilt won't be available to those that want it.

I agree that those who respect tradition will respect the traditional kilt. But will they be able to have one if the traditional kiltmakers go out of business?

I believe that the casual kilt market has increased sales of traditional kilts. Again, the traditional kilt will always be a special garment.

I have no quarrel with the natural process of evolution -- the kilt has evolved to its present form and will undoubtedly continue to evolve. I think the modern tailored 'small kilt' is an improvement on the 'great kilt' for the needs of modern life. But I would not like the kilt to be eclipsed by a mass-produced kilt-like garment made popular by modern merchandising.

Never happen. Mass marketing kilts might hurt small casual kiltmakers but never the traditional kiltmakers.

We live in an age in which huge manufacturers and retailers dictate what we should wear, and most of it is of mediocre or poor quality, made offshore in places where workers are paid little for their labour. Women's ready-to-wear has been so degraded by this kind of 'evolution' that it's nearly impossible to get a really well-made garment in a good fabric in any of the chain department stores, even the most expensive ones. Menswear is going in the same direction.

I think the opposite. For the first time in a long time, menswear is changing, and it's changing to higher quality garments. I think the kilt is pushing this movement. Guys start with an inexpensive kilt and work up to a traditional. We've seen it tons of times on this board.

In contrast, you entrepreneurial kiltmakers are like small couture houses. You design, make, and market your own products, and all quality control is in your hands. You are not what I fear. You are not going to bring about the death of the traditional kilt. But if Wal-Mart and their suppliers, for example, got into the casual kilt business, it might very well spell your demise. And if Perry Ellis and Ralph Lauren, et al, started selling their upscale version of a mass-market kilt, it could make enough of a dent in the traditional kilt market to force individual and small-business traditional kiltmakers out of business. And that Would Not Be A Good Thing.

The more popular kilts get, the better chance one of the major designers will make a major push into the market. The smaller kiltmakers will be lower priced and do all right with their regular business. The traditional kilts will be better quality and what most will wear in pipe bands and for special occasions.
I honestly don't think there's a big enough market for a lot of sales for a mid quality kilt. Not big enough for anyone with enough money to get interested in, at any rate.
If they've enough money to do it, they won't like the profit margin. Any smaller company would accept the profit margin but won't have the funds to do it right, so they won't touch it, either.

Just as an aside, I don't fear for the future of any kiltmakers, large or small, traditional or casual. The market is still rapidly growing.
I don't know how many casual kiltmakers have sprung up in the past few years but most are still at it.
When I started in 2003, I was the only kiltmaker in North America making quality, casual tartan kilts.
Guys are buying kilts and wearing them for daily use. This is not a fad. Fads are a flash phenomenon. This is a steadily growing trend.

I realise my first post may have originated that pile-on that happened to you. Sorry 'bout that.

[Graham]

This is not a fad. Fads are a flash phenomenon. This is a steadily growing trend.

and I'm glad to hear that! I hope the trend continues to grow and that we see more and more kilts worn as everyday garment, whether casual or traditional.

[chacbalam]

I own a very expensive designer suit that I almost never wear and several less expensive sport coats that I wear when I want to dress up a little, and a lot of tee shirts. I wouldn't wear my suit to the pub anymore than I would wear a tee shirt to a wedding.

Similarly I own a Scottish tailored custom kilt, two Utilikilts, and I am strongly considering buying a Stilwater heavy weight. Each has its own place. I would never wear my tank to work (I do custom art packaging) or to school. Nor would I wear my UKs to a formal event. The Stillwater would be an alternative to my UKs that I can wear when I go hiking or pub crawling.

I will continue to purchase my formal kilts from qualifiled makers, but I feel that I hould have a choice in the range of kilts that I wear.

[Thistle Stop]

I realise my first post may have originated that pile-on that happened to you. Sorry 'bout that.

Not a problem! I do sometimes feel like I'm beating my head against the wall in here, but I enjoy all the discussion and I love the guys who particiate in the forum. What an interesting bunch! If it sometimes seems to me that a few just don't 'get it', it's most likely due to my inability to articulate my views well enough. If there's sometimes a 'gang up' on someone, it's because these guys have so much enthusiam for the topic. Most of the time, the forum members are pretty nice to me, despite the fact that I'm a woman and thus not really one of the kiltwearing fraternity!