Ghillie brogues, yes or no?

[DWFII]

PS...

BTW, most of the shoes shown on the above link could easily be worn with a kilt. And many would be perfectly acceptable in a formal situation. After all, when you've paid upwards of £3000.00 for a pair of shoes, there's few who can gainsay you in terms of sheer class.

[Carolina Kiltman]

A word on the term "costume". While meanings have changed over the past two generations, when I was a lad, the term referred to any specialised type of clothing, i.e. your swimming costume, your cricket costume, much in the same way we use the term "uniform" here in the US. In fact I was asked the other day if I was going to wear my "uniform" (meaning Kilt) to the fourth Friday celebration downtown. Just thought I'd throw that into the pot.

[beloitpiper]

Check out this link for some very nice, high, high end men's bespoke shoes, many of which are not strictly brogues but which have broguing on them:

http://www.gazianogirling.com/samplebg/index.html

There are several pages of thumbnails here...all of which re-size upwards so be aware of the arrows that take you to the next set of images.

YEESH! Those are good-looking nowadays? Wow, my foot would never fit into those. And why are they so pointy? They don't even look like shoes...

Like Riverkilt said, why doesn't somebody make a good shoe for my wide Celtic feet?

[Thunderbolt]

YEESH! Those are good-looking nowadays? Wow, my foot would never fit into those. And why are they so pointy? They don't even look like shoes...

Like Riverkilt said, why doesn't somebody make a good shoe for my wide Celtic feet?

I agree. I'm sure that they are very nice, comfortable and expensive. And to someone, I'm sure they look fantastic.

But not to me.

T.

[Bugbear]

Thanks, DWFII, I'm getting tangled up in the shoe terms. It's the pointy toe shoes that I don't like to wear. I like to wear the shoes that have a round, non-pointed toe. That would be on any shoe from lace up, to slip on, to buckle, even lace up boots.

Kind of hoping that the pointed toe shoes aren't the only acceptable dress up and formal shoes that can be worn with a kilt.

[DWFII]

YEESH! Those are good-looking nowadays? Wow, my foot would never fit into those. And why are they so pointy? They don't even look like shoes...

Like Riverkilt said, why doesn't somebody make a good shoe for my wide Celtic feet?

Well first off, remember that these are "bespoke." That means that they would be made to your foot and your specifications. The fact that they are narrow looking and pointy is simply....first, the maker has chosen the narrow ones to display. That's a common enough practice when photographing shoes or boots. Something about the proportions of a narrow shoe always looks better than a wide shoe. And second, the fashion in Europe these days, in haute couture, is the long narrow square toe. That too will pass. You need to look past those minor and variable details to the workmanship and the styling. Finally, these are more continental in styling than would be found at a West End London maker such as John Lobb, St. James Place. http://www.johnlobbltd.co.uk/main/main.htm

As a bespoke maker myself, I admire Gaziano and Girling quite a bit, but I wouldn't necessarily make shoes with that pointy a toe and certainly not for myself. That said, it bears repeating that a bespoke maker is going to put whatever toe you want on a shoe. I'm making a pair of shoes for a fellow kilt wearer even now that have a wide round toe but it easily could have been a wide square toe to wear with a kilt.

But when you are looking at off-the-rack, you'll never, ever find something to fit your wide feet. And I've yet to see a ghillie brogue offered by a high end bespoke maker...they're most often made (and priced) like a low end Allen Edmonds here in the states.

I guess you get what you pay for...$700+ for a kilt, $150-200 for shoes???!! And you guys with "wide, Celtic" feet?! Tsk!

[BobsYourUncle]

Hamish: Ordinary, everyday brogue shoes serve me perfectly for semi and fully formal occasions, as long as they are clean and well polished and, if I am really dressed up, my Glenfinnan buckle shoes are just the answer.

I am afraid I see Ghillie Brogues, or rather their extravagant lacing, as another opportunity for the wearer to over dress. The shoes themselves are fine - just take away those ghastly laces, replace them with ordinary length ones and enjoy the uncluttered look that results.

One very real and significant drawback of these shoes is the fact that the laces can dig into your leg, and it really is not that pleasant, therefore for me I prefer buckle brogues for formal wear and just a regular everyday business shoe for casual or semi dress wear.

I actually voted yes, but feel that one should take very seriously the reservations posed by Hamish and McMurdo. Perhaps one should ask "What would a Scot living in Scotland do?", and one could take a cue from many pictorial examples on this forum and on the web. It appears that many Scots wear a dress shoe version of brogues with normal dress shoe laces, called "wing-tip brogues" here in the States. I actually prefer double soled wing tip brogues, but that's just me. Scots in Scotland apparently wear these non-ghillie laced brogues even in quite formal circumstances. I have previously posted a photo of the installation ceremony of the Finlaggen Pursuivant, showing several grand worthies wearing non-ghillie laced brogues. They look great, and quite formal, [as they should as participants in an heraldic ceremony] and in compliance with our collective idea that the kilt should be regarded as daily wear and not exclusively ceremonial costume. Reference to the several wonderful posts by Nervous Jock [as well as the Royal Regiment Orders of Dress available on line] demonstrates that Hamish's point is well taken--Scottish military ghillies are worn with regular style shoe laces laced in the military ladder pattern.

All that being said, I voted yes for several reasons: (1) "costumey" is a difficult objection to justify: it is impossible to completely avoid the aspect of costume when wearing a kilt, it is, after all, in its modern form, a "costume" invented by Victorian fashion fops [among others, the Sobieski Stuart brothers, who committed outright fraud in promoting the Victorian fashion revival]; (2) when properly coordinated with other accessories for level of formality, they are great looking and distinctive; (3) personal taste and style should govern, not some misbegotten "rule", especially where none of the so-called "rules" for modern kilt wear have any historical validity--the kilt police should stand down.



Cheers! Enjoy your ghillies, enjoy whatever you think is good! FREEDOM!

[beloitpiper]

Well first off, remember that these are "bespoke." That means that they would be made to your foot and your specifications. The fact that they are narrow looking and pointy is simply....first, the maker has chosen the narrow ones to display. That's a common enough practice when photographing shoes or boots. Something about the proportions of a narrow shoe always looks better than a wide shoe. And second, the fashion in Europe these days, in haute couture, is the long narrow square toe. That too will pass. You need to look past those minor and variable details to the workmanship and the styling. Finally, these are more continental in styling than would be found at a West End London maker such as John Lobb, St. James Place. http://www.johnlobbltd.co.uk/main/main.htm

http://www.johnlobbltd.co.uk/catalog...s/ghillies.htm





ooOOOOooo! Pretty!

[DWFII]

http://www.johnlobbltd.co.uk/catalog...s/ghillies.htm





ooOOOOooo! Pretty!

Wow! I missed those...haven't been on Lobbs site for a year or so.

But hey! There you go...for all those folks with wide, Celtic feet. Looks like they might even have a tongue --I go back and forth, one minute I think there's a tongue, next time I look I think it's just the tree I'm seeing.

[DWFII]

Thanks, DWFII, I'm getting tangled up in the shoe terms.

These are technically a "semi-brogue derby." First pair I ever made. Note wide round toe. And toe cap rather than wing tip.

In black they'd be great with a kilt and a PC, as they are they'd still do fine for daywear or with a brown tweed Argyll.