In English please?

[porrick]

my own feelings are that its very Regional how most people post in a kind of South west/Glasgow way of speaking, across the country words and accents vary so much thast not including the island folk, so to call it "Scots" is Nae rerally accurate, how Robertson posts is a fairly accurate phonetic representation of a southern Scots accent, however Its like music it sounds better than it looks written down

This is not just an issue within this forum; many countries and languages have this diversity. Norway is a country of many regional dialects and variations (we even have to official varities of Norwegian we are all expected to be able to speak and write), and many of the local papers print readers' letters and commentary/debate written-as-spoken.
This causes little disturbance in communication once one gets used to it. I honestly can't see that the written variety of English discussed here is such an issue/problem.
For many, such discussions are about the willingness to adapt and/or accept change.

I guess that for many it is a matter of principle. If you only knew how often I need to adapt my use of language to avoid misunderstandings: 1) typically when conversing with Swedes in Norwegian, Norwegians ae the ones to substitute "strange" Norwegian words with the (for the Swedes) understandable Swedish words, 2) typically I have to make sure American friends/colleagues understand by having to adapt (no, we don't have moose in Europe, but if we use the correct term elk, Americans automatically think of " their" elk; why should I as an English teacher use first floor for ground floor - just to make an Englishspeaking colleague understand?)

One gets tired after awhile with "do you speak English? Sprechen Sie Deutsch? Snakker du norsk? Why can't we pay with American dollars?"

Communication consists of two parties - why is it always the one who has something to say that has to adapt to everybody else?

One who is Irish-English-Norwegian-Swedish-having-studied-and-worked-in-the-US is just wondering...


PS
Just a question: how do people who have problems accepting a quasi phonemical approach to writing deal with short-form messaging such as synchronous on-line chatting, sms-ing etc. (A serious question, as this is part of my job)

[Peter C.]

Peter,

I respectfully disagree. While it is good that students are proficient in a language that will benefit them in their studies as well as their future life, there is also value to studying traditional or "ancient" language to appreciate their heritage and culture. After all, to know where you are going, you must know where you have been.

As a devotee of the works of Burns, it saddens me that many young people in Scotland today are not more familiar with his timeless works, save a few oft-used quotes and New Year's Eve. An understanding of Burns's poetry and song will not only preserve traditional Scottish culture, but also spread his timeless message of understanding and brotherhood.

That is certainly empowering as well.

Regards,

Todd

Todd,

Of course I'm with you on most of this with slight differences. I would say it is not just good to be proficient at your main language, it is essential.

I do agree with what you say about heritage and of course if there are teachers to teach the ancient languages and time to do it, then what a facinating subject.

I must also agree with you about Burns. People are not even familiar with the abridged writings of Burns, which are sold in most book shops, let alone his works where he uses words which are still used and frowned upon in modern English.

Peter

[macwilkin]

Todd,

Of course I'm with you on most of this with slight differences. I would say it is not just good to be proficient at your main language, it is essential.

I do agree with what you say about heritage and of course if there are teachers to teach the ancient languages and time to do it, then what a facinating subject.

I must also agree with you about Burns. People are not even familiar with the abridged writings of Burns, which are sold in most book shops, let alone his works where he uses words which are still used and frowned upon in modern English.

Peter

Peter,

As a teacher, I'll not argue with you on your first point.

T.

[ronstew]

I have wondered what the language is like in Canada. In England we say queue rather than line, but wicket is new to me unless it is a post like a wicket in cricket.

When I first came to the US to visit my wife-to-be we found ourselves in the KFC opposite Gracelands in Memphis. We went to order and the woman behind the counter recited the menu to us. When she finished I said to my fiancee, I will have the same as you, as I did not understand one single word the woman had said.

Peter

Actually, Peter, Steve was exaggerating. It was funny, but apparently misleading. Given that 90% of Canadians live withing 100 miles of the USA border and we have been exposed to US mass-media for our whole lives, our linguistic idiosyncrasies have mostly vanished - merged into a sort of Los Angeles/New York universal American English. Part of the issue is that kids always think "the other" is better, so they imitate US spelling and pronunciation.

By the way, you will find that the cricket definition for wicket is the third in The Concise Oxford Dictionary. The usage Steve refers to once was common in England. In the case of a post office or bank, the wicket is the little window through which you make your transactions. This just proves that language evolves.

If you took 50 people born and raised in Canada in the last 40 years, I doubt that more than twenty would know any definition for wicket, and of those twenty, I'd guess that seventeen would have the cricket definition.

[ardchoille]

Please keep in mind that I never said I didn't want to see the Scots being written.. rather I said "can someone please translate into English so we can all understand what's being said".

It seems that many of you replied as if you needed to "defend" the use of the Scots language, which wasn't necessary, rather than actually reading the parent post.

[slohairt]

Lallans IS a living language. However, like the other tongues of the British Isles, it is fighting for its very survival against English. (Like many others around the world.)
It is also beset with an additional hurdle (boon?) of being mutually intelligible with English. Thus, it is often discarded or "watered-down" when one is conversing with an English-speaker.
Claiming that Lallans is a dialect, phonetic rendering, or an accent is mistaken. It IS a separate language. It meets all of the "qualifications." It is the TRUE sister language to English.
Claiming it is a dialect would be like Irish speakers claiming that Scottish Gaelic and Manx are mere dialects! Imagine the uproar!
I applaud efforts to restore and reinvigorate the language, but I regard it as somewhat bittersweet. It still needs to be done, but ultimately, it is too little too late. I have watched firsthand the stagnant "revival" of the Irish language. It will remain a part of society, but will never regain status as the everyday language of the majority of people. English, like it or not, is the de facto business language of the world.

[slohairt]

Anglia Canadiana:

I'm wearing a toque, drinking my pop sitting on the chesterfield, and eating a chocolate bar!

[porrick]

Please keep in mind that I never said I didn't want to see the Scots being written.. rather I said "can someone please translate into English so we can all understand what's being said".

It seems that many of you replied as if you needed to "defend" the use of the Scots language, which wasn't necessary, rather than actually reading the parent post.

True, true

But, as we know, when people become interested and engaged the topic develops.

I see you have edited your initial post as " waste of time".
Hmm, maybe if on the surface of having the simple question answered - but you have certainly put your finger on something that engages - and in that aspect is certsinly not a waste of time.
I thank you for (unintendingly) bringing up the issue

[ronstew]

Anglia Canadiana:

I'm wearing a toque, drinking my pop sitting on the chesterfield, and eating a chocolate bar!

The swamper was hucking skookum rocks at a toboggan from the bathroom.

(The truck-driver's assistant was throwing large stones at a flat-bottomed sled from the restroom.)

But chesterfield, hucking and skookum are vanishing words. I haven't heard any of them in years except in conversations like this.

[McClef]

I applaud efforts to restore and reinvigorate the language, but I regard it as somewhat bittersweet. It still needs to be done, but ultimately, it is too little too late. I have watched firsthand the stagnant "revival" of the Irish language. It will remain a part of society, but will never regain status as the everyday language of the majority of people. English, like it or not, is the de facto business language of the world.

One needs to differentiate between languages which have a strong international status, such as English, and those which have a more limited regional or national status.

Many people in Wales speak "Wenglish" which is, like Lallans, less of a variant of English and more an alternative to the Celtic languages in Wales and in Scotland. You could also make a similar case for Ireland.

While there is the usage of dual language on signs and an official status for the "minority" language one might not get a "revival" but it does create an interest and awareness of its existence. Erse (Irish Gaelic) isn't trying to become an international language, but those who live in Ireland, and visitors are constantly made aware of its existence.