Wearing kilts of other tartans than your clans.

[Smayniac]

My current kilts are a Black Watch variant and a muted brown fashion from Sportkilt. My celtic lineage is actually Irish; when people ask my clan, I say I'm showing celtic solidarity. Now that I've been wearing for a while, I probably wouldn't wear colors I'm not entitled to by lineage, although I will continue to wear Black Watch.

As it happens, my Xkilt, in progress, will be what I'm now choosing to call "Weathered Saffron", but I didn't come up with the name until after reading this and the Irish kilt threads here.

Bob

[Nighthawk]

I wear my clan tartan and only my clan tartan and have done for over 60 years.Most Scots,not all, who actually own a kilt would think along these lines.I think for two main reasons, firstly, because that is how they were brought up to think and secondly, cost.I am generalising here ,but most Scots only know about the "expensive" end of the kilt world and have little or no knowledge of anything else.

I have been on this website now for just over a year and I still find it very hard to understand(actually I still don't) why people with Scots roots want more than one tartan.Ok,I hear it now! "But I am a Campbell,with a Scott mother,with a Kerr grandmother,and a MacAthur twenty third cousin etc., so I can wear all those tartans",well yes you can if you insist, but we in Scotland usually choose our farther's tartan or the one we are closly connected to and that is that.In this part of Scotland,whilst nothing would be said,you would be written off as a poser if you were to wear a tartan of more than one Clan .

For those with no connection to a tartan, then I can quite understand that there in not a loyalty issue and can see the attraction of wearing different tartans.I hasten to add that it is all down to personal choice and cost and others will and do choose to follow a differing path to me.

Jock, I agree with you for the most part. I won't generally wear anything that I don't have a close connection with. I wear my fathers tartan, which is my avatar, as my family tartan. I wear the Clergy tartan because I'm a minister. I am planning to get a kilt from Colorado's tartan, as I am from Colorado. Otherwise I have solid color kilts, like a black Amerikilt and an Irish saffron, since my mother is Irish. I don't wear any tartan that I don't have a close connection to (well, aside from the Stewart black since it's considered universal, and a MacKenzie weathered for my reenactment group.) I also have to admit that I like a couple fashion tartans. I only have one, though- a SWK Nightstalker. So call me a poser if you like, but I am very choosey, and I (almost always) pick tartans that have special meanings for me. At this point, I have all the universal/fashion tartans that I will ever get.

[Jock Scot]

Jock, I agree with you for the most part. I won't generally wear anything that I don't have a close connection with. I wear my fathers tartan, which is my avatar, as my family tartan. I wear the Clergy tartan because I'm a minister. I am planning to get a kilt from Colorado's tartan, as I am from Colorado. Otherwise I have solid color kilts, like a black Amerikilt and an Irish saffron, since my mother is Irish. I don't wear any tartan that I don't have a close connection to (well, aside from the Stewart black since it's considered universal, and a MacKenzie weathered for my reenactment group.) I also have to admit that I like a couple fashion tartans. I only have one, though- a SWK Nightstalker. So call me a poser if you like, but I am very choosey, and I (almost always) pick tartans that have special meanings for me. At this point, I have all the universal/fashion tartans that I will ever get.

I would be far too polite to call someone a poser! What I may think, on the other hand -----------!You do raise an interesting point though and it is something that I have seen in other threads too. Clergy tartan! I am no expert on the clergy ,and I do know that a clergy tartan exists, but I have never in 60 something years seen it worn by a Vicar, Priest,Bishop or whatever.Up here, if the clergy wear a tartan, some do, it will be their clan tartan ,or I suppose, one of their choice. Is this idea (I like the idea,by the way)
of wearing a clergy tartan another trans-Atlantic thing?

[gilmore]

\...You do raise an interesting point though and it is something that I have seen in other threads too. Clergy tartan! I am no expert on the clergy ,and I do know that a clergy tartan exists, but I have never in 60 something years seen it worn by a Vicar, Priest,Bishop or whatever.Up here, if the clergy wear a tartan, some do, it will be their clan tartan ,or I suppose, one of their choice. Is this idea (I like the idea,by the way)
of wearing a clergy tartan another trans-Atlantic thing?

The clergy tartan (is said to have) originated in the Highlands. (Or maybe in a Lowland mill?)Here is part of an article by Matt Newsome on it:

"...The Clergy tartan has been described as the only occupational tartan. It is seen in a few variations, including a blue and a green version. Why the different tartans? Do they represent different types of clergy? Let’s look at what we know.

There is a tradition that Highland clergy wore Highland clothing, but were instructed not to wear bright colors. As to the veracity of this statement, I cannot say. Regardless, this is the tradition that has been handed down. The first evidence we have of a tartan for clerics is from the records of the weaving firm Wilsons of Bannockburn, c. 1830. They called their tartan of black, lavender, and light blue “Priest.” Why they called it that is anyone’s guess, but most likely they though “Priest” was a suitable name for a tartan in muted colors.

Tartan researcher James Logan next illustrated the design in The Scottish Gael, published in 1831, under the name “Clergy.” He changed the light blue and lavender of the Wilsons’ design to white and gray, and one pivot was different. The tartan is next seen in The Authenticated Tartans of the Clans and Families of Scotland, published in 1850 by William and Andrew Smith. They attempted to reproduce the tartan as given by Logan, but with Wilsons’ coloration. However, there were problems with the production methods. Sometimes lavender was mistakenly used for stripes that should have been black. And the light blue in some copies of the book turned out a green-gray. Variations occurred from one edition to the next, and sometimes between copies of the same edition. If anyone wonders why there are often different versions of the same tartan in circulation, this sort of occurrence is usually to blame!

By 1850, and the publication of the Smiths’ work, the tradition had already been established that this was the tartan early worn by clerics. They write, “Down till a very recent period, this pattern was generally used by the Clergy in the Highlands for their week-day habiliments; and even now the secular mantle or plaid of the priesthood in the North is not unfrequently made of this, or similar kinds of stuff.”

The Clergy tartan was next illustrated by James Grant in 1886, in The Tartans of the Clans and Septs of Scotland. He used blue in place of lavender, including for two lines that should have been black, (apparently copying the error from one of the Smiths' books). In his text, however, he says that the tartan was white, black and grey. This would indicate that he intended to illustrate the tartan from Logan's work, but the publisher substituted a different illustration. In later editions of his book, the text described the tartan as dark blue, light blue, and black, but in the illustration this time light blue was rendered as green!

Lastly, in the first edition of The Setts of the Scottish Tartans, D. C. Stewart attempted to make a compromise between Wilsons’ and Logan's settings. This had the undesired effect of creating yet another variation. In later editions this was amended.

Where does the Clark family tartan come into all this? Both “clergy” and “clark” have the same root in Latin – clericus. The Clergy tartan seems to have been used by the Clark family for that reason. In fact, in some nineteenth century records, the tartan is identified by both names. The practice today that many tartan weavers follow of rendering the Clergy tartan in more muted tones than the Clark tartan is a convention adopted to allow for distinction between those wearing the tartan for family connections, and those wearing it because they are ordained ministers.

As I have stated many times, there is no such thing as a “right” or “entitlement” to wear a tartan. However, when you wear a named tartan, you are identifying yourself with whatever that tartan represents. As the Clergy tartan is widely recognized as representing the ministry, I certainly would not recommend it be worn by anyone who did not fit the bill! Just ask yourself if you would feel comfortable wearing a Roman collar, or a monk’s robes.

Finally, the Clergy tartan does not represent any particular sect or denomination. While it is perhaps most popularly used by ministers of the Church of Scotland (Presbyterians), there is no evidence to suggest that its use was ever limited to one group. Keep in mind that until the Reformation of the sixteenth century, all of Scotland was Catholic. Even after that time, the Highlands of Scotland remained Catholic much longer than the Lowlands. And while Presbyterians are most common among Protestants, you also have the Church of England, the Scottish Episcopal Church, and many other denominations in more recent times. Yet the Clergy tartan was never mentioned in association with one particular sect. It was always simply said to be used by “Highland Clergy.”

The only denomination-specific tartan that I know of is the Episcopal Clergy tartan designed by Rev. John B. Pahls in 1966. This tartan honors the clergy of the Scottish Episcopal Church and the Episcopal Church in the USA, and marked the bicentenary of the death of the Rt. Rev. Samuel Seabury, first American bishop of that church.

So, if you are Episcopal Clergy, you might choose to wear that tartan. But other than that, any Clergy tartan can be worn by any cleric of any stripe. But don’t feel limited to that! I know many ministers and priests who wear their clan tartans, and I have often thought that a solid black kilt would look stunning with clerical dress."

http://albanach.org/clergy_tartan.htm

[Bugbear]

I don't see why one can't have a connection to a fashion tartan if it's named for or represents something that's significant in one's life. Other than one's family tartan that is.

[Tommy Hunt]

Just as I claim to have a connection to a clan, I claim a connection to the tartan of that clan. To wear another's tartan would be for me to claim a connection to it which would be false. It is this reason I could not wear the tartan of a clan I wasn't connected too. It would diminish my claim of relationship to my clan and the wearing of my own clan's tartan. For me that's one of the beauties of the Kilt and one that isn't found in normal western dress. The connection, through clothing, to our family history and more broadly to the role our families played in the struggle of an entire country. It's very exciting and demands of me respect.

[Jinx]

We've discovered that although the name is DEFINITELY from Prussia, anyone of the name of Grote can become a member of clan Sinclair! Apparently there was someone in the 17th or 18th century that really helped the clan out, and this is the thanks we all were given!

Soo, which Sinclair to wear? Or, the state kilts of the states where we were born! (Husband in Wisconsin, and I in California) And I like the Los Angeles City Tartan, but I think I would need to be a policeman or firefighter to wear it. And can military retirees wear the tartan for their branch of service?

Trying to get hubby to just wear one, black duck or light canvas utilikilt or X-kilt, he will look amazing in one!

Are there any other clans which "adopted" other families? Especially non-UK families?

[ThistleDown]

Thank you C J.Can I make one thing clear, the Scots who think like me(perhaps I think like them!),would have no problem with a person wearing different tartans OF THE SAME CLAN,or a military tartan,provided that they had actually served in that unit,or,a pipe band tartan.Rather unsurprisingly, most Sots have no idea,or perhaps no interest in district or fashion tartans.

For six months and more I've been sitting here wondering about the same thing but not saying it (is that a cultural thing, Jock?) In another thread we were asked to list the tartans we liked. I listed the tartans I wore as kilts day after day after day and realised that, after it was posted, the question didn't relate to culture, but to fashion. I thik I wasn't being asked what I wear, but what I liked.

I have been wearing a kilt since early school days and so have worn the school tartan, a couple I have inherited, and those with which I am closely connected by blood (you will understand when I say these are Mackintosh, Shaw, Macpherson and Davidson because, I think, you live not too "farr" from me).

Until finding and joining XMTS it never crossed my mind to wear anything other than my families' tartans (with some inherited exceptions).

But you and I must recognise "root-finding" and "pure comfort" as two separate but pimary objectives here.

Does that makes sense?

[jusskippy]

Realizing that I'm a site newbie and that the most recent post in the thread is from before I joined, please excuse my reviving this thread so long after that last post, but I havent quite seen my situation addressed.

While I admire the Scottish people for their resilience, I am not Scottish in the least (by heritage, at least). My family is entirely Eastern European Jews. Seeing as how there is no Jewish tartan, nor is there a tartan for Germany, Russia, Poland, or Lithuania, I have no claim to a clan or district tartan (except the unofficial Virginia Tartan or the American Tartans).

I suppose I could claim the "clergy" tartan as a family tartan, since my surname is Cohen, which is Hebrew for "priest", but that seems a bit of a stretch ().

I married a Canadian woman, so I suppose I could even stretch to the Canadian Tartan, or the Tartan of her province, Ontario. Her late father, to whom I would like to show respect, was born in Ireland, but his surname was Anderson. Her mother's family was mainly French-Canadian, but her maternal grandmother married a MacDonald, who wore a MacDonald tartan kilt every day of his life.

Now, the real problem. Even though I have, as previously stated, no Scottish heritage, I feel like a bit of a traditionalist, and I also hate to feel as though I am showing disrespect to someone's family (even if they would never think of saying anything to me about it). Now, rejecting the idea of (shudder) not wearing the kilt, my dilemma is "what tartan to choose?" I would actually (i think) more like to hear from the traditionalists, understanding that there are differing viewpoints on this issue. I intend to (someday) buy a "tank", so I want that to be in a tartan that I feel comfortable wearing, without feeling that I am disrespecting anyone by my attire.

[gilmore]

If you do a search of this site, you will find a couple of long threads from a couple of years ago which discussed Jewish Scots (or Scottish Jews?) wearing the Gordon tartan. It has been associated with Jews for at least several decades, going by the photographic evidence, and perhaps longer. According to Arlen, our intrepid on the ground correspondent who lived in a Jewish section of Glasgow, this tradition continues to the present time. There are several stories as to how this association came about, all are interesting, and at least one is true.

Within the last year or so some one designed an allegedly Jewish tartan and has been trying to market it, but I don't know how well it is catching on.