Why all the negative comments on Flat Caps?

[Panache]

So way back at the beginning of this thread Ayin McFye had a question...

Ok, I've been noticing more and more people keep saying stuff like "Yeah, and he was wearing a flat cap with his kilt. HAHAHA" and I'll admit I'm pretty lost on this. I wear my flat cap all the time, both with my kilt and non-kilted. I also wear a cowboy hat and my kilt from time to time. I've seen people wear top hats, turbans, baseball caps, and bandanas, but for some reason there seems to be people laughing when a flat cap is worn with a kilt.

I just need to know whether or not I'm the blunt end of a joke that I'm unaware of. I still intend to wear whatever hat I want, no matter what anyone says, but I'd like someone to please fill me in if possible.

I'm not that offended by all the comments, I more just want to know why people keeping pointing it out, in what seems like a negative way.

And a fellow named Panache should have answered...

Ayin,

The subject came up in a couple of threads a while ago. A lot of us on this side of the pond think that flat caps go very well with kilts. However in Scotland many feel that flat caps have their place but they simply aren't worn with kilts. There are several factors as to why this is, but they are less understandable to us over here.

If I may suggest to the Ladies and Gentlemen of XMTS that this subject like white hose has been debated enough and now it is time for us all to agree to disagree.

Does that sound like a good plan to you Ayin?

Cheers

Jamie

[DWFII]

I fear that you miss the whole point of my post, whether by accident or on purpose. I do understand why none of these "characterizations" rings true, however, as I assume you have been born and brought up in a country where none of them apply. You may aspire to be the President of your country, I have to rely on an accident of birth for that. You may wish to join an elite branch of your armed forces and rise to the top in it. I can only aspire to advancement within the catering corps as the Household Division is a closed shop to officers without a privileged background. I won't go on but I do wish you would not place an "envy of wealth" slant on my comments without a true appreciation of the circumstances that I attempted to describe. Some of the "let them eat cake" responses from the "shooting, fishing, beagling, cub hunting, various other blood sports" camp are entirely predictable, of course because what vested interests do you think they are trying to defend?

I would not purposefully mis-understand you. I apologize for whatever misunderstanding...for whatever reason.

And I concede that I have not grown up in or had much exposure to the kind of culture or social structure you describe...but, surely that works the other way around, as well--if you are speaking to an international audience you can't really expect them to share your unique perspectives, can you?

That said, I think that "class" is probably nearly as well established and in someways just as restrictive in the US as in Britain...it's just more subtle. But there are many people in the US...and in Britain, too, I'm sure...who use their wealth, whether inherited or not, to great benefit for their fellow man. Charities, endowments, trusts, foundations, and the like. To be sure, there's a certain amount of self-interest involved in this but there's a certain amount of generosity, as well.

On the other hand, those at the other end of the spectrum seldom have even enough generosity of spirit to give anyone visibly better off than themselves the benefit of the doubt.

And in this country...as I'm sure must be true in yours...there is at least a percentage of the "lower classes" who would rather wallow in self-pity than work.

There is little to admire in greed and the unrelenting consignment of quality, respect, and tradition to commercial interests--the reduction of all things good to the lowest common denominator for the purpose of selling it more easily (or cheaply).

But there is absolutely no redeeming aspect of poverty...no virtue in starvation and disease.

That "the third class are the most virtuous" strikes me as sloganeering to some extent...add a flat cap and suddenly you have a revolution. It doesn't resonate with me or seem useful in the real world.

[slohairt]

I own a caubeen, but I'm not really much of a hat guy. (Due to my large Irish head.) I've never worn a flat cap, though my cousin (and close friend) frequently wore one backwards during his 'Dazed and Confused' phase!

[Phil]

Before this thread finally gets closed down can I just mention our National Bard, Robert Burns, and his poem that summed up succinctly the attitude many Scots have -
The man's a man for a that

Ye see yon birkie, ca'd a lord, birkie - a dandy
Wha struts, an' stares, an' a' that;
Tho' hundreds worship at his word,
He's but a coof for a' that: coof - a fool
For a' that, an' a' that,
His ribband, star, an' a' that:
The man o' independent mind
He looks an' laughs at a' that.

A prince can mak a belted knight,
A marquis, duke, an' a' that;
But an honest man's abon his might,
Gude faith, he maunna fa' that!
For a' that, an' a' that,
Their dignities an' a' that;
The pith o' sense, an' pride o' worth,
Are higher rank than a' that.

Then let us pray that come it may,
(As come it will for a' that,)
That Sense and Worth, o'er a' the earth,
Shall bear the gree, an' a' that. bear the gree - win the prize
For a' that, an' a' that,
It's coming yet for a' that,
That Man to Man, the world o'er,
Shall brothers be for a' that.

I couldn't put it so eloquently.

[Paul Henry]

Panache, I so agree that this is just another thing that divides, but I think the point that I and some others have made is, there are actually very few on this board , from Scotland who think a flat hat is wrong, and the point that it is so important is: that the view of one or even a few individuals cannot represent a whole country and the the way things might be seen in that country.
Phil does have a very valid point about class which perhaps isn't so relevant or so meaningful in the States.
The answer is of course anyone can wear a flat cap with a kilt, just as anyone can wear almost anything else with a kilt, Some people won't like it, but those people are not always representative of everyone, and it is so important that their view is considered(of course) but not form the basis of HOW things should be done....

[Spartan]

Panache, I so agree that this is just another thing that divides, but I think the point that I and some others have made is, there are actually very few on this board , from Scotland who think a flat hat is wrong, and the point that it is so important is: that the view of one or even a few individuals cannot represent a whole country and the the way things might be seen in that country.
Phil does have a very valid point about class which perhaps isn't so relevant or so meaningful in the States.
The answer is of course anyone can wear a flat cap with a kilt, just as anyone can wear almost anything else with a kilt, Some people won't like it, but those people are not always representative of everyone, and it is so important that their view is considered(of course) but not form the basis of HOW things should be done....

Well said.

[Ayin McFye]

If I may suggest to the Ladies and Gentlemen of XMTS that this subject like white hose has been debated enough and now it is time for us all to agree to disagree.

Does that sound like a good plan to you Ayin?

Cheers

Jamie

Agreed. I've got my answer, and this has definitely gone on long enough. I thank everyone for all their input, and like Jamie has said, some of us will just have to agree to disagree.

Over the years, I've learned a lot about most of you, and one of the biggest things that I've learned is that although we ask for advice sometimes, we are all adults and will still do what we please regardless.

I will still wear my flatcap, because I believe I look good in it. If someone doesn't like it, well that's their right. I wear kilts and its accessories for myself, not for anyone else.

Thanks again. Feel free to close it up.

Cheers!

[Panache]

Ayin has his answer and this thread is closed per his request.

Cheers

Jamie