Kilt-Wearing among modern Borderers?

[davidlpope]

For those of you who are in Scotland, have travelled to Scotland, or have first-hand knowledge on the subject, what is the current accepted practice among those who are, or are descended from Border Scots concerning the wearing of kilts?

I notice in photos that chiefs of certain Border clans/ families seem to not favor the kilt, particularly Buccleuch and Nesbitt.

I know that historically Borderers did not wear the kilt, speak the Gaelic, etc., but did the arrival of the Vestiarium Scotium with its tartans for Lowland and Border clans and George IV's visit to Edinburgh lead to the adoption of the kilt, etc? If so, has there been a pendulum swing away from this as a means of reasserting the unique culture/ history of the Borders as distinct from the Highlanders? By contrast, it seems that many of the Lowland chiefs (Errol, others?) are often seen in the kilt, although their ancestors wouldn't have worn it either.

Thanks for your enlightenment.

David

[Jock Scot]

Interesting question there David and I am not sure that I am the one to come up with correct conclusions and answers. However, the impression that I have is that the borders and the rest of non Highland Scotland have accepted the kilt(in the end!Sorry I could not resist that!) as a dress(I don't mean in a formal context necessarily) option. I doubt that the kilt is worn during normal everyday wear any more in the borders than in the highlands, these days. Also, I doubt that the occasions the kilt is worn in any part of Scotland varies these days.

Tartan trews certainly used to be in my early years, 1940/50's, were more common in the borders, but not worn by all and sundry as general wear. I am not sure if that is the case now.

I hope this helps.

Note:
"the Borders"= the area of the Scots border country with England.
Borderers= the people living in the border(both sides) area.

[Sir William]

An article in a recent edition of the Clan Elliot newsletter addressed this very issue. The author questioned the propriety of Border families wearing both tartan and kilts, since these are both more recognized as from the Highlands and not the Borders.

In essence, he suggested that since King George III's visit in 1822 where all the clan chiefs were encouraged to wear tartan, and which is the year in which the Elliot's adapted a tartan, the wearing of tartan by a Border family (or clan as they are now known) is now an acceptable tradition.

Secondly, he noted (as did Jock above) that kilts have now become identified with Scots and Scotland, not just the Highlands, and is therefore acceptable for wear in the Borders. However, he did note that tartan trews are probably much more appropriate because of their use in the Lowland regiments.

At our clan gathering last summer in Newcastleton, and later at the Gathering in Edinburgh, I saw about an equal mix between tartan trews and kilts, worn by the attending Americans, Canadians, Australians, and of course Scots of our clan. Both were fully accepted and, in fact, Margaret of Redheugh, Chief of Clan Elliot, said she liked seeing the kilts and hoped that more might appear in the future (her husband (not an Elliot) wore trews and her son (and our future chief) wore a kilt). I would say that perhaps the trews were favored slightly more by the Scots, while those of us from other lands favored the kilt, but the margin was small.

[figheadair]

In essence, he suggested that since King George III's visit in 1822 where all the clan chiefs were encouraged to wear tartan, and which is the year in which the Elliot's adapted a tartan, the wearing of tartan by a Border family (or clan as they are now known) is now an acceptable tradition.

Actually it was George IV that visited Edinburgh. Geo III lost (gave away?) America.

Don't want to spoil your day but, the Elliot tartan first appeared in Clans Originaux of 1880 and did not exist at the time of the Levee in 1822.

Secondly, he noted (as did Jock above) that kilts have now become identified with Scots and Scotland, not just the Highlands, and is therefore acceptable for wear in the Borders. However, he did note that tartan trews are probably much more appropriate because of their use in the Lowland regiments.

Some of the Highland regiments (pre-The Royal Regiment's formation) wore trews on certain occasions/forms of dress. The QOH officers for example wore the kilt Monday - Thursday and Trews on a Friday.

[Sir William]

Actually it was George IV that visited Edinburgh. Geo III lost (gave away?) America.

Ah, but you're all to right. I've been spending a lot of reading (and a tour) on the American Revolution the last month. Too much George III on the brain.

Don't want to spoil your day but, the Elliot tartan first appeared in Clans Originaux of 1880 and did not exist at the time of the Levee in 1822..

And here we've been told it was 1822. Another lesson learned.

Some of the Highland regiments (pre-The Royal Regiment's formation) wore trews on certain occasions/forms of dress. The QOH officers for example wore the kilt Monday - Thursday and Trews on a Friday.

True, but I was trying to show that the trews were more popular in the Borders because they didn't have a tradition of kilted regiments.

[CameronCat]

I can't speak directly to the question for lack of deep (or any) knowledge, but offer one small data point...

During our trip to Scotland last year, we were chatting with our Edinburgh B+B hosts one morning over a late breakfast. I had asked for their candid opinions as citizens of the entire Scottish devolution picture and the country's possible future.

Somewhere in what turned into a lengthy and enlightening discussion, the comment was made "Well, you see Scotland is really two countries, the Highlands and everybody else. Attitudes in the Borders are quite different from what's up here."

I also remember from an earlier trip in the mid-90s that we saw very little tartan--either clothing or "general decor" -- in Ayr and surroundings. Nice people though, and otherwise fully Scots in every way.

Not sure that explains anything at all, but there it is.

JT

[Lallans]

Genetically, I hail from the land of long long memories and am pretty sure that some generations of my Border and Lowland ancestors would look askance at my wearing a Forrester kilt- they would look that way and then come on horses with muskets, sabres, and dirks. But that era is over and over here in Canada and everywhere, it's time to man up and put on a kilt. The earlier comments about how they have come to be Scottish national dress are perfectly true and correct. The Highlanders can have the great kilt by way of distinction. I mean if they want to.

[cessna152towser]

Kilts are now often seen in the Borders but tartan trews, which are probably more historically accurate for southern Scotland, are still very popular.
At the Muster of the Clans in Selkirk last year, the Chiefs of Clans Scott and Borthwick both wore trews, as did the gentleman who is petitioning to be recognised as head of Clan Irving, but some Border clans, including Kerr and Nesbitt wore kilts.

[Mac Ghille Sheathanaich]

I just made and sent a kilt to a pal of mine in Dumfries. I'm bugging him for pictures at this point.
I have shown a pic of it in the DIY forum. It is made in the Leslie M.C. and was the tartan of "The King's Own Scottish Borderers".

My friend is a tour guide at Drumlanrig Castle and works kilted every day.

Regards aye,

T.

[BobsYourUncle]

I just made and sent a kilt to a pal of mine in Dumfries. I'm bugging him for pictures at this point.
I have shown a pic of it in the DIY forum. It is made in the Leslie M.C. and was the tartan of "The King's Own Scottish Borderers".

My friend is a tour guide at Drumlanrig Castle and works kilted every day.

Regards aye,

T.

As a Lowland regiment, the KOSBs wore trews in the Leslie tartan as per the Earl of Leven--only their pipers wore kilts, and their kilts and plaids were in the Royal Stuart tartan. See the KOSBs website here: http://www.kosb.co.uk/insignia.htm .