craftsmen/artisans vs Cheap goods

[ronstew]

A girl wants me to make her a custom ball gown but expected only to pay $30 bucks for it (supplies included). When i told her she was looking at least at $100 for supplies alone, much less paying for my time she was livid. She could go to the mall and get a simular dress for $50. The problem is that dress won't fit her correctly and will fall apart soon as a breeze hits it.

A complicating factor is that people have been conditioned to pay extra for "designer labels." The fact that the "designer" products are mass produced by Asian child-labour seems irrelevant.

Further, home-made is supposed to be cheap and inferior. You go for home-made when you cannot afford store-bought. Now, I am guessing that Shantarra works from her home, so obviously her work is cheap and inferior. It's just logic (stood on its head).

[DWFII]

The real problem is that most people, in the US at least, and many in Europe as well, have so bought into the consumer mentality that they have never made anything themselves. How many people here bake their own bread? How many know where that rib-eye comes from? I mean really know? How many have killed and butchered even one meal in their lives, in other words?

We buy this stuff all pre-packaged. There's no more connection to the cow in a carton of milk than there is to Scotland in a canvas wrap-around. Without that connection, without knowing what goes into an item...whether it be from the perspective of raw materials, or workmanship (because we, ourselves have done something similar), or even the strong feelings of "ownership" for their traditions that we see among some of our Scottish brethren...without that connection we have no way to appreciate or place a value on quality.

I ran across something today (can't remember where but it struck me) to the effect that those who create quality understand what quality is, no matter where they find it. Those who work with their hands understand the dedication that goes into hand work. But if you're selling insurance...and no disrespect to insurance salesmen...it's pretty hard to have any kind of insight into what goes into a Tewkbury or a Newsome. If a person has no more idea of how to thread a needle than how to change lead into gold, the idea of quality ain't even in his/her vocabulary except as a placeholder.

And to bring it all around, I suspect that even the most dedicated craftsmen among us, even those who are supposedly "off grid," quite literally have no idea how far embedded in, and how dependent on, the commercial consumer economy we are. I'm not one of these people who blame corporations or advocate a "make your own toilet paper" economy, but ask yourself how many times you seek out the hand-made (I didn't say "home-made") dining room table. Or the bespoke suit. Or even the custom made and tailored-specifically-for-you Argyll jacket, for that matter? Much less the hand-made sporran or sgian dubh.

Even those of us who work with our hands tend to buy acquisitively rather than appreciatively. We buy the cheap bread, the TV dinner, the paper diapers, the Taiwanese flip-flops, the plastic dinnerware, the melamine-veneer-over-particleboard furniture.

And then we ask why: Why didn't this last?

Why is our culture so crass and shallow?

[Bugbear]

The real problem is that most people, in the US at least, and many in Europe as well, have so bought into the consumer mentality that they have never made anything themselves. How many people here bake their own bread? How many know where that rib-eye comes from? I mean really know? How many have killed and butchered even one meal in their lives, in other words?
...

I give up.

[DWFII]

I give up.

I don't know what that means...I don't know whether to be happy for you...or sad.

[Bugbear]

I don't know what that means...I don't know whether to be happy for you...or sad.

DWFII, your post was extremely insulting to me. However, I understand that is how you view the world.

Why don't you think long and hard about those questions you asked, "how many", then try answering it your self.

My answer is most of my neighbors, most of my family members, and most of the people I know.

[BobsYourUncle]

In a similar vein:

I do not prize the word "cheap." It is not a badge of honor. It is a symbol of despair. Cheap prices make for cheap goods; cheap goods make for cheap men; and cheap men make for a cheap country.

-- President William McKinley

One of my favorite quotes. I, for one, believe that appreciation for good quality is not dead, and is alive and well. There will always be a majority who cannot afford the luxury of quality, hand made products, or simply do not value them. There will be others, yet, who value quality in some things and not in others. And, of course, there will always be merchants happy to provide cheap, low quality goods to those who have no choice, or whose priorities lie elsewhere...IMHO...Regards...

[DWFII]

Ted,

I think you are finding insult where none was or is intended. It was just an essay...one that I have thought about for many years. One that, may I suggest, I am very well positioned to address. If you re-read the post...and re-read it with all that in mind...you will see that it is aimed at no one and covers everyone--including myself.

That said, I stand by what I wrote--I don't know too many folks in this part of the country...nor any part of the country...who have killed their own dinner at least once in their lives--just to know what the true cost of it is, mind you. And at 63 years old, I haven't known all that many in my entire life who have done...despite having spent most of my life around ranch and rural people (although I will grant you that it is far more common in such communities). Take a guess at what percentage of the population in this country, however, can make such a claim...I suspect it isn't over 10%.

Do you make your own bread every week? Some do, but most don't. Not where I live, not anywhere I've ever lived.

As for the rest, I know from reading posts here that many people talk quality and buy expedient. Again, myself included. I've got an old Harris tweed sport coat that I've got half torn apart trying to convert to a highland jacket. But it will never be a proper highland jacket. And I know it...I know it because for over 35 years I've made the better part of my living working with my hands...making shoes--a 19th century trade that exists at the margins and mercy of the greater society, subsisting on what can objectively be called 19th century wages.

In the 19th century a pair of quality shoes may have cost...say, $100.00. But it was the equivalent of $1000.00 in today's wages. Most people today, still want to pay $100.00 for a pair of shoes and balk at anything more. Even if I weren't a shoemaker, I'd still be insulted by that attitude, but especially when confronted with talk of how good a pair of Allen Edmonds are. Or to keep us on topic, how good a $100.00 kilt is.

And if we, as individuals, spend the better part of our lives and life energy looking for ways to avoid buying quality...looking for substitutions and short cuts, endlessly, endlessly...our society will end up with no one who knows how to do anything but make plastic flip-flops. We're very near that point now.

So I guess we have to take our insults where we can find them. As a shoemaker, I feel eminently qualified to suggest that if the shoe fits, wear it.

[Riverkilt]

You can have any two of price, quality, or service is how I heard it.

I treasure the value of quality at a fair price for the craftsman.

Value is what its all about.

Ron

[Bugbear]

I stand by my statements. There are plenty of fishers, hunters, bakers, ranchers, farmers, and craftworkers in this country.

[DWFII]

Ron,

Respectfully...I don't think "value" has anything to do with it. Think about it...value is the degree of importance we assign to that which we seek. It is an indicator of our priorities. It is also so subjective as to bar a wholly objective definition. In other words, what you consider a "good value," I might consider too dearly bought.

Quality, on the other hand, is much more amenable to an objective standard. We can...most of us...agree that a solid oak chair is of better quality than one made of mild iron and vinyl.

But can we agree on which has greater value? I'd be surprised.

Yes, we can suggest...but only suggest...that if the oak chair is priced less than the vinyl chair, it is a better "value." But that just substitutes the word "value" for "deal" and makes all our "values" dependent on price--money. You can't get further away from understanding the concept of quality than by interjecting the cost as a modifier.

And if we always choose the vinyl and iron chair even when we can afford the oak chair, can we really assure ourselves that we even know what quality is?