Celtic Crest

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

John,

I am afraid I have a slightly different take on some of the points you've raised with Matt:

The point is Mat, that the Clans Person is only allowed by courtesy of the chief to wear the badge in a Belt & Buckle as a metallic badge if it is reproduced in other media it should be in B/W to represent that this is the Clans Persons Bonnet Badge.

I'm about halfway here on this point. The clansman's badge (CB) is comprised of two basic elements: the Chief's crest, and the buckle and strap that encircle it. The chief's motto should always appear on the strap.

The badge, although purchased by the clansman and therefore his property, can only be worn or displayed without the objection of the chief. Although usually made of white metal and worn on the bonnet, the badge may be made from any material and worn in any manner that is appropriate.

It is not, even in the broadest sense, merely a clansman's bonnet badge (emphasis mine).

No Mat, it should be depicted in B/W in other media, because they had badge made in gold is their personal choice.

This goes back to the days of engraved printing, and really only applied to things like the letter paper used by Clan Societies. There was also a strong social convention that implied colour printing was, some how, "vulgar" (probably because of the obvious cost).

Technically if you put the crest in a belt & buckle on a piece of silver for example you are stating that this belongs to the Chief or Armiger as it is his crest you are using as a courtesy.

That's right. An Armiger (someone with is own coat of arms) may display his crest in any manner of his choice. You may not.

Yes in heraldry colour does play an important roll however this does not transpose over to badges as such. Evan in Fairbairns Crest they are depicted in B/W.

Fairbairn's Crests was created as a guide for jewelry engravers and printers. As neither of these trades would have any need for colour renditions of the crests, to say nothing of the cost of producing the two volumes in colour, it was done in B&W.

Yes, in heraldry colour does play an important role. In the Letters Patent of a grant of arms the crest is as carefully blazoned as the shield of arms itself. The crest of a Chief is therefore always represented in colour unless worked in a single metal, or engraved on paper (and even here it may be reproduced in full colour). Because it is at all times and in all mediums the property of the Chief, he may direct that, when used as a clansman's badge, it only be displayed as a monochromatic line drawing, in all of its technicolour glory, or a combination of either depending on use, display, and medium.

The only time that it would be "wrong" to display the clansman's badge in colour, would be if the Chief had directed otherwise.

At the end of the day the Clans Person is only entitled by courtsy to wear the badge and no more.

I would agree with this, as there is no "right" to wear or display the clansman's badge, other than without the objection of the Chief. The same applies to "clan societies" which are not recognized by the chief.

Oh yes. And to tee-shirt printers, as well!



I suggest Mat you join the Heraldry Society of Scotland forum Click hre for details on how to register to the Forum they are far more learned than I and would give you a better more knowlageable answer. The forum may be of interest in other aspects also.[/QUOTE]