Post Your Granted, Assumed or Desired Arms

[WVHighlander]

So with those helpful lessons on language I would be looking at something like this:

Argent between in base a bear rampant, fangs bared, armed and langued gules and in chief between two crosses moline a raven displayed, beaked and armed Sable a fess Gules.

Is that about right??

[Chas]

So with those helpful lessons on language I would be looking at something like this:

Argent between in base a bear rampant, fangs bared, armed and langued gules and in chief between two crosses moline a raven displayed, beaked and armed Sable a fess Gules.

Is that about right??

No. The way blazon works is that everything mentioned before the tincture is of the same tincture. The way you have blazoned it the bear is red! I really think that " fangs bared, armed and langued gules" is redundant. You just wouldn't see it.

There is what we call the 'postage stamp test'. Reduce your shield down to the size of a postage stamp. Sit down at your desk and place it in front of you. If you can see all that detail, you might include it in the blazon. But in the overwhelming number of cases, it would be left out.

Consider this: Argent a horse pulling a cart Proper. Is there a mention of the horse furniture? What type of horse is it? Big difference between a Shire and a Suffolk. What type of cart? How many wheels? 2 or 4? I don't know the answer to any of these questions, but I can recognise the arms when I see them.

It is a big mistake to try and include everything in the blazon, there really is no need. Your next door neighbours are not going to have the same arms, but with the bear muzzled.

If it were me I would stick with the blazon I first quoted:

Argent between in base a bear rampant and in chief between two crosses moline a raven beaked and armed Sable a fess Gules.

It is accurate, but gives enough scope for an heraldic artist to add any 'poetic licence'.

Regards

Chas

[WVHighlander]

Cheers Chas. I appreciate you insight. Now all I need to do is get accepted at Edinburgh University or Kings College and submit my request! LOL

[WVHighlander]

Coat of Arms: Argent between in base a bear rampant and in chief between two crosses moline a raven beaked and armed Sable a fess Gules

Crest: A gryphon passant sable, holding a sword proper

Motto: Ego planto mea fortuna (I make my own fate.)

[Chas]

Coat of Arms: Argent between in base a bear rampant and in chief between two crosses moline a raven beaked and armed Sable a fess Gules

Crest: A gryphon passant sable, holding a sword proper

Motto: Ego planto mea fortuna (I make my own fate.)

Hi John,

A bit of a design observation. I have often heard it said that unless it is part of a group (as the three lions in pale, from a previous post) one beast on a shield is more than enough. In your case, I think that you get away with it as the fess effectively brakes the shield neatly into two compartments.

My concern is with the crest. Yet another, but different beast. Making a total of three different animals. It is of course, your choice and decision, but I tend to favour the 'beasts on the shield - objects on the crest - or vice versa' formula.

How about a pair of crossed swords in saltire behind a cross moline? You could even go for something quite clever and have the cross voided so that the crossed swords can de seen through it.

If you are going to do this right, you will only do it once, but the decision will last (or should last ) your lifetime. Far better to take the extra time and consider all possibilities.

Just a thought.

Regards

Chas

[WVHighlander]

Chas,

OK you have taxed my right side brain. I am trying to picture your crest suggestion and cannot....help?

[Chas]

Chas,

OK you have taxed my right side brain. I am trying to picture your crest suggestion and cannot....help?

John, it's midnight here and I was just off to bed. I will put some thing together for tomorrow.

Regards

Chas

[Mike_Oettle]

Sorry to be a wet blanket, WVHighlander, but there are some drawbacks to your design.
Chas suggested the postage stamp test, and it is a good one.
What you will find is that while the two crosses moline can still be made out, and perhaps the bird in chief, the bear in base is somewhat lost.
You could try using just the bear’s head instead of the whole bear.
And by narrowing the fess (call it a bar, or a barrulet, even) you will gain space to display your other charges.

I do like Harold Cannon’s design.
Regards,
Mike

[WVHighlander]

Mike,

I appreciate your input; however, the bear rampart is a necessity based on a family history. Also, I shrunk down the picture to postage size and it doesn't look bad at all. This goes back to MoR's comment that it comes down to personal preference I think. However, I open for being refuted.

JC

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

So with those helpful lessons on language I would be looking at something like this:

Argent between in base a bear SABLE rampant, fangs bared, armed and langued gules and in chief between two crosses moline a raven displayed, beaked and armed Sable a fess Gules.

Is that about right??

Pretty much, if you remember to specify the colour of the bear as sable (otherwise it may end up as some other colour).

I would prefer to blazon the arms as:

argent a fess gules in chief between two crosses moline a raven wings expanded sable and in base a bear statant erect of the last fangs bared armed and langued gules.

Traditionally arms are blazoned in the following order:

(1) the field; (2) the primary charge; (3) any subordinate charges; followed by (4) subordinate charges placed in or on a chief; (5) subordinate charges placed in base.

In the instance of your arms the primary charge is the fess, which takes up 1/3 of the field. Those charges in chief and in base take up less space and are therefor subordinate charges.

While "fangs bared" may sound like heraldic tautology when followed by "armed and langued", it is used in this instance to clearly remind the painter that (1) the bear is not muzzled, and that (2) the teeth are to be shown lest he take it upon himself to draw a rather docile bear with its tongue sticking out.

Also, I'm not sure I like your bear's attitude.

While it is possible to blazon nearly any beast as "rampant" when displayed on the shield this can lead to all sorts of recognition difficulties. Case in point being Mr. Cannon's "rampant bear" that looked to me like a lion rampant debased (ie: with it's tail hacked off). When dealing with real animals (as opposed to mythical beasts) I think it is better to portray them in natural attitudes.

Likewise I think changing the attitude of your raven from displayed to "wings expanded" will not only provide better balance to the chief, but will also make it look less like a rather undernourished eagle.

But, as I have stated previously, ultimately you are the only person who has to be satisfied with these arms.