Bagipes Banned from Edinburgh Wedding !

[McClef]

I can find nothing in rubrics or policy of the Scottish Episcopal Church that bans bagpipes as a matter of policy.

Nor have I found anything for the Church of England.

Nor for the American Episcopal Church.

As English Bloke says "it's nobbut an excuse."

[2a5t2f7]

Sounded like a personal preference "reason" to me as well..... However, I was not in a position to argue with the inlaw's pastor at such a difficult time. In reality, the "outside" playing had an even more ethereal effect than they would have had in the cathedral.......

My experience in the local Episcopal Diocese where I live has also not been the same. One local church even has a Kirkin O'the Tartan service complete with Highland Cathedral played by The Citadel Pipe Band.

[English Bloke]

Sounded like a personal preference "reason" to me as well..... However, I was not in a position to argue with the inlaw's pastor at such a difficult time. In reality, the "outside" playing had an even more ethereal effect than they would have had in the cathedral.......

My experience in the local Episcopal Diocese where I live has also not been the same. One local church even has a Kirkin O'the Tartan service complete with Highland Cathedral played by The Citadel Pipe Band.

I understand you wouldn't wish to argue with the gentleman. I'll bet that Kirkin' is a sound to behold though. You'll have to grab some pictures next time.

[Chas]

A couple of thoughts come to mind.

Noise pollution. In the UK the Noise Abatement Society is a small but vociferous band. It is an area that no one thinks or cares about, till suddenly there is a ban on any live music after 22:00 or a ban on muzak in lifts. Many public venues now have an automatic reporting system. If the decibels exceed a certain pre-set level the event is recorded and the organisers get an automatic fine.

Or there might be a question of someone having to buy a Street Entertainer's Licence.

But in the end I think it probably comes down to personal preference. Not everyone (not even in Scotland) likes the sound of the pipes.

Regards

Chas

[OC Richard]

I've piped at weddings and funerals here in the USA for over 30 years now, and this issue of certain clergy not wanting bagpipes inside the church crops up from time to time. Often the person objecting is not the clergy but the Wedding Coordinators (who have a way of imposing their will on clergy and congregants alike).

"Once bitten, twice shy" as they say, and I really can't blame the people who object to having pipes inside the church, after being exposed to pipers playing their Pipe Band competition setup pipes, with the chanter screaming a quartertone sharp and as loud and brassy as human ingenuity is capable of making it.

If all pipers used warm woody mellow concert-pitch (466) chanters for church gigs we would have far fewer people objecting to pipes in church.

But alas many pipers don't want to be bothered and just play their Band setup pipes indoors, and pipers like me have to suffer the consequences, either losing gigs (like the piper in the story did) or having to play outside.

I even have a hard time convincing people to let me play my uilleann pipes in the church. They don't believe me when I say they are the same volume as a single violin or flute. Many's the time I've had to actually play the uilleann pipes for them. As soon as they hear them, my playing in the church is approved.

And I tell them I can play Highland pipes at that same volume as well- my Miniature Highland pipes.

(Ironically it's the often the best pipers who do the most public damage, because the best band pipers have the loudest and sharpest pipes. I inherited one regular gig because the church didn't like they piper they had hired once, a former Pipe Major of a Grade One band!! The guy is a fantastic player but he came into the church playing incredibly loud and incredibly sharp and the church didn't like it one bit. Of course this guy knows all about 466 chanters and probably has one, but he didn't bother to switch out his band chanter for the gig.)

[CMcG]

<snip>pipers playing their Pipe Band competition setup pipes, with the chanter screaming a quartertone sharp and as loud and brassy as human ingenuity is capable of making it.

If all pipers used warm woody mellow concert-pitch (466) chanters for church gigs we would have far fewer people objecting to pipes in church.

Slightly off-topic, but I'm curious about the quartertone sharp tuning of a chanter. Is that a sharper than the drones, thereby giving a richer sound from the tones rubbing, or is everything tuned up a bit? Also, what other organological modifications do competition pipers make to increase the volume and brassiness?

I can understand why some clergy might not appreciate that sort of sound inside a place of worship; it really is an outdoor instrument. However, banning any type of pipes whatsoever from the vicinity is draconian. As OC Richard wrote, not all pipes are that bold and brash.

[davidlpope]

Slightly off-topic, but I'm curious about the quartertone sharp tuning of a chanter. Is that a sharper than the drones, thereby giving a richer sound from the tones rubbing, or is everything tuned up a bit? Also, what other organological modifications do competition pipers make to increase the volume and brassiness?

466 is actually a relatively "flat" tuning of a chanter. Bagpipes don't work on a conventional A=440hz scale. Our pipe band tuned A=476hz. The tenor drones are always tuned an octave below Low A on the chanter, the bass drone is two octaves down.

As far as not being able to have pipes in a particular church, if you don't agree with the rules, find another place to play ball...

David

[EagleJCS]

Slightly off-topic, but I'm curious about the quartertone sharp tuning of a chanter. Is that a sharper than the drones, thereby giving a richer sound from the tones rubbing, or is everything tuned up a bit? Also, what other organological modifications do competition pipers make to increase the volume and brassiness?

davidlpope has it right. The tenor drones (the two shorter sticks on the shoulder) are tuned one octave below the chanter's Low A, and the bass drone (the long stick) is two octaves. (The chanter is where the tune/melody comes from, the drones provide the 'hum'.) And yes, bagpipes can be (and definitely should be) tuned.

From what I've been told, the relative pitch for bagpipe competitions has been rising every so slightly from year to year from the mid-1980's or so (because the flatter tone sounds dull by comparison and consequently doesn't place as well). From what I understand, the pipes started out slightly sharper than concert A=440 anyway, but that's another discussion. Unfortunately, that means the higher notes are sounding more and more shrill. I've read that we're now approaching the limits of what the current design of drone/chanter bores and reeds can produce.

The volume (and brassiness) comes from using a stiffer reed. There's a lot of ebb and flow to the dynamics between the drums and pipes of a band. The pipes start going sharper, so the drums (which can be tuned as well) have to follow. Since the drum tension goes higher to get a higher pitch, their volume goes up, so the pipes have to get louder as well.


Regarding Richard's comment about soloists using their band setup - sometimes, that's all a piper has. Not everyone can afford a second set of pipes, or even has the time to maintain a second chanter (with backup reed, etc.) and using just one set of drones for both band and solo duties. When mini-bands are hired (like I'm playing with later today), it's easier to use the band setup (we're already matching in pitch) than trying to get all of our solo chanters (those of us that have them) to match note for note.

Anyhow, this is all off topic....

[saxandpipes]

Slightly off-topic, but I'm curious about the quartertone sharp tuning of a chanter. Is that a sharper than the drones, thereby giving a richer sound from the tones rubbing, or is everything tuned up a bit? ...

Easy answer is:

If the chanter is tuned high, the drones will be too. There is no musical advantage to having one's drones flat to the chanter.

Cheers,

Michael

[seanachie]

I even have a hard time convincing people to let me play my uilleann pipes in the church. They don't believe me when I say they are the same volume as a single violin or flute. Many's the time I've had to actually play the uilleann pipes for them. As soon as they hear them, my playing in the church is approved.

I enjoy the uilleann pipes as well. I hired a group of Irish musicians for the wedding reception and they were grand. Many people who had never heard them before thoroughly enjoyed the trad music.