Why Do Some Take Such Offense...

[artificer]

My answer to "What's the difference between a kilt and a skirt?" has always been...

a head-butt (or Glasgow Handshake, for the UK members)

ith:

[Calico]

Ahem, back to the original question, I believe this quote from earlier in this thread answers it all.

but I sometimes lack the self control not to get a little peturbed. It applies to pretty much everything though. I don't appreciate when someone persistingly badgers me about anything

Some people get upset about certain things, while to others it is immaterial.

There is no "why", that's just the way people are.

[Kintail's Lost Now Found]

I've been following this thread for a few days now. It has gotten more and more interesting. I've read some other people's opinions, thought about my own, rethought my own and so on.

It comes down to a question of semantics. As a linguist I "love" to argue semantics. In their purest use words are just tools we use to communicate with each other. So if you have to call a kilt a skirt because a kilt is a type of skirt good on you. Would that not also make a skirt a type of kilt. Or is it that all kilts are skirts but not all skirts are kilts? Is a dishdasha in Iraq a dress, or the Galabaya of Egypt? Unbifurcated garments cover a wide scope, on both sides of the sexes. Some love to hold on to semantics, some don't. That could be part of the reason some take offense.

It could also be some are threatened by what others think. It could be a sense of national pride, or just a sense of pride. It could be a bad day, the weather, or just a mood that causes people to take offense.

It could also be that it gives people something to stand for. Symbols have a way of motivating people to rally, or flee.

Ultimately it comes down to the human factor though.

[James Hood]

A licensed psychologist musical acquaintance has an interesting view on the concept of folks taking offence. She purports, veritably all we humans do is out of two "bases," Love or Fear.

A person who takes offense to some stimuli exterior to that person, is doing so out of some degree of internalized fear. Whatever they encounter /experience / see, is beyond their ability to cope therewith, so from their state of whatever degree of fear, they react to that stimulus, with anger, offense, intolernce, accusation, irreverence, attack....

[Foxgun Tom]

My answer to "What's the difference between a kilt and a skirt?" has always been...

a head-butt (or Glasgow Handshake, for the UK members)

ith:

As a 54 year old Glaswegian male I've never resorted to handing out a "Glasgow Kiss" to anyone just because they don't know the difference between a kilt and a skirt ,no'r would I

In my humble experience I've never met anyone who did'nt know the difference! My opinion based on history, culture and living here is that a kilt is a kilt is a kilt! It is most definately not a dress, skirt, frock neither does it have a resemblance to a ball-gown!!

Ladies in my opinion who wear the kilt while playing in pipe-bands wear a garment that was never designed for the female form! they wear it as part of a uniformed group with the emphasis on the bands uniformity!

I really don't think that's some-ones lack of knowledge on what,the correct term for what an item of Scottish clothing is called, should in any way be considered offensive, educate people to the correct terminology and history.

another cat among the pigeons, are a Sgian Dubh or a Dirk kives? certainly not, when their worn with national dress to me a Sgian Brew is just a bottle opener like the one on my keyring and I would'nt stick any kitchen utensil down my hose

Tom

[Pleater]

English has such a large vocabulary there must be something amiss when a problem with words can't be resolved.

Robe and gown seem to be fairly universal terms applicable to garments for man woman or child.

Skirt would seem to be perfectly adequate too - many people would use the term for a kilt perfectly correctly according to normal usage, but then you get some larrikin using it as an insult.

Responding with violence seems rather dangerous, and one could hardly engage in a battle of wits - taking on an unarmed opponent as it would be.

It is indeed a conundrum as to the best course of action.

Possibly a choice between trying out one of the wittier verbal responses and just ignoring the fool, depending on the circumstances.

Anne the Pleater :ootd:

[Nick the DSM]

Responding with violence seems rather dangerous, and one could hardly engage in a battle of wits - taking on an unarmed opponent as it would be.



Possibly a choice between trying out one of the wittier verbal responses and just ignoring the fool, depending on the circumstances.

Anne the Pleater :ootd:

Agreed, especially if the person is only armed with a "rubber knife", meaning he didn't really mean to hard someone.

It's always difficult to spot someone you can joke with and not have ever met the person. For example, if someone is wearing some silly hat and a guy yells a joke about the hat or whatever, is Mr. Silly hat going to respond back in an appropiate manner or at all? What if he really loved that hat?

Everyone on this board has had some sort of experience to it, hopefully someone didn't brandish a claymore in response...

[AN COIGREACH ALBANNACH]

The large array of different opinions as to why some do or don't take offence at having the kilt called a skirt is a perfect example of the reason why I am beggining to understand more and more what I believe our respected member Jock Scot is getting at.

It is a kilt.

If you come from a family background that not only understands but respects this, then to hear it refered to as a skirt and not want to correct that person shows to me that the bloods too thin.NOTE: I said IF you come from a Scottish family or family where the Scots influence is still strong.I know that many on this forum do not fall into that slot(really thats two different slots)
and that's fine.I'm all for freedom of expression,if more men feel free to wear masculine things other than trousers or shorts then I say brilliant.

Volusianator you openly declare that you are not from Scottish stock, and I say that to see you wearing your skirt,as you are happy to have it reffered to,shows that you have some baws man.I applaud that.No one should think that I'm against that.Nor would I in my wildest dreams concider what you're wearing a kilt.

So if I am wearing mine and I get a skirt comment,they are at best not understanding it,at worst deliberately trying to belittle it,and I will say

"It's not a skirt,it's called the kilt"

I can do this without needing to have taken offence.Offence need only be taken when you have been affronted,and each to his own when this happens.To make no effort to correct them is to miss an opportunity to stand up for what the kilt is and to help avoid further confusion for the person.As I said,I need not to have taken offence to do this.

What concerns me is what I see as a watering down of the Scottish kilt by those who say that they are wearing the kilt.And as a person who grew up with Scottish family members around me,as a man who sees the wearing of my kilt on certain occasions as a continuance of family customs that we still hold dear,I openly admitt that if only scots wore the kilt then we would not even be having this discussion.In Scotland,to the Scots,the kilt is the kilt,is THE KILT.

No Scot that I know would feel that calling the kilt what it is, is purely a matter of semantics,or word play.The kilt means ethnic identity,with strong national and historical meaning.To smile and say thank you when someone remarks 'nice skirt' is to allow yourself to assist in peoples ignorance of it.To wear things that are not Scottish in a non Scottish manner and still call it a kilt is,to me,like borrowing something without asking,and mis using it.

I do think this forum is a great thing in many ways,but the more I see the more I wonder why it's called Xmarks the Scot,a forum for kilt wearers.So many on it are quite ignorant,or uncaring,about what lies behind the wearing of the Scottish kilt.I often feel it would be more accurately called some name not involving Scotland,as a forum for men of all sorts who happen to enjoy wearing alternatives to trousers or shorts.

[Nick the DSM]

I do think this forum is a great thing in many ways,but the more I see the more I wonder why it's called Xmarks the Scot,a forum for kilt wearers.So many on it are quite ignorant,or uncaring,about what lies behind the wearing of the Scottish kilt.I often feel it would be more accurately called some name not involving Scotland,as a forum for men of all sorts who happen to enjoy wearing alternatives to trousers or shorts.

That's a bit uncalled for. The story behind the name was that the site was created for fellow kilt wearers, not just Scots, the name just stuck and I personally think it's a fitting name.

Members come from all different kinds walks of life, family, tastes in clothing, etc. However, we all have something in common: the love of the kilt or the modern evolution of the kilt such as a freedom kilt, so on. Some do it as something else to wear than trousers and such, but does that make them as any less of a kiltwearer? Different courses for different horses.

Yes, alot of members come from Scottish ancestry, heritage, whatever we must call it now since it is so far gone according to most people. Members know what THE kilt is, some choose not to wear it and have a different taste, others that it is the only choice they care to have. The kilt is what started this forum, whether it's the traditional kilt or the "watered down" version you speak of. I hope I'm not putting words into your mouth, but the message can only be so clear over the internet.

I personally don't believe that if I let someone call it a skirt that I am taking away the dignity of the kilt. I don't need anymore proof to myself, my family, my fellow kiltwearers that I'm wearing a masculine and ethnic garment, and have to correct every ignorant idiot that opens their mouth with an incorrect word. Yes, it bothers me, but with some situations I can't press it further without making it into an issue that I don't wish to get into. I let it be and I hope that someone else may correct him, or he figures out his own mistake. I take the offense when it puts me into defense.

I hate to see those views on this forum, I can't do anything to force you out of them, but I still hate it. I believe there's plenty of those who care much about the kilt like you do, like I do, like Jock Scot does, etc. We also have another group of kilt wearers of the more modern types, good on them. Some do both. This forum is less about alternate clothes of pants and shorts, and more about kilts than you seem to think. It's not always the traditional kilt, but I'm not going to get beaten down by something that won't take away the kilt's identity or meaning.

[Peter Crowe]

The large array of different opinions as to why some do or don't take offence at having the kilt called a skirt is a perfect example of the reason why I am beggining to understand more and more what I believe our respected member Jock Scot is getting at.

It is a kilt.

If you come from a family background that not only understands but respects this, then to hear it refered to as a skirt and not want to correct that person shows to me that the bloods too thin.NOTE: I said IF you come from a Scottish family or family where the Scots influence is still strong.I know that many on this forum do not fall into that slot(really thats two different slots)
and that's fine.I'm all for freedom of expression,if more men feel free to wear masculine things other than trousers or shorts then I say brilliant.

Volusianator you openly declare that you are not from Scottish stock, and I say that to see you wearing your skirt,as you are happy to have it reffered to,shows that you have some baws man.I applaud that.No one should think that I'm against that.Nor would I in my wildest dreams concider what you're wearing a kilt.

So if I am wearing mine and I get a skirt comment,they are at best not understanding it,at worst deliberately trying to belittle it,and I will say

"It's not a skirt,it's called the kilt"

I can do this without needing to have taken offence.Offence need only be taken when you have been affronted,and each to his own when this happens.To make no effort to correct them is to miss an opportunity to stand up for what the kilt is and to help avoid further confusion for the person.As I said,I need not to have taken offence to do this.

What concerns me is what I see as a watering down of the Scottish kilt by those who say that they are wearing the kilt.And as a person who grew up with Scottish family members around me,as a man who sees the wearing of my kilt on certain occasions as a continuance of family customs that we still hold dear,I openly admitt that if only scots wore the kilt then we would not even be having this discussion.In Scotland,to the Scots,the kilt is the kilt,is THE KILT.

No Scot that I know would feel that calling the kilt what it is, is purely a matter of semantics,or word play.The kilt means ethnic identity,with strong national and historical meaning.To smile and say thank you when someone remarks 'nice skirt' is to allow yourself to assist in peoples ignorance of it.To wear things that are not Scottish in the Scottish manner and still call it a kilt is,to me,like borrowing something without asking,and mis using it.

I do think this forum is a great thing in many ways,but the more I see the more I wonder why it's called Xmarks the Scot,a forum for kilt wearers.So many on it are quite ignorant,or uncaring,about what lies behind the wearing of the Scottish kilt.I often feel it would be more accurately called some name not involving Scotland,as a forum for men of all sorts who happen to enjoy wearing alternatives to trousers or shorts.

I think you have hit on something important here. I am not one of those Scots who believes Scots or those descended from Scots are the only people entitled to wear the Kilt. Imitation is after all a form of flattery. However, if wearing the kilt or Scottish Civilian Highland dress is part of your family/ethnic/cultural/national heritage passed down to you from your father and forebearers, it has a different emotional resonance than just wearing the kilt because you like it or are making a lifestyle choice.

As I posted earlier for those of us brought up with the kilt, it is a a part of who we are, inculcated in us from before we had the autonomy to make a personal choice in the matter. The fact that we continue to wear it is a personal choice we make to honour our family upbringing and values. That was what I meant when I wrote earlier in this thread that it has an almost existential quality (not that we couldn't be ourselves without it, but a part of our identity would be diminished, in essence our kilt-wearing completes part of our identity). Consequently when someone says 'nice skirt', they may not intend offence, but the net effect is still dismissive of our heritage. I believe in this day and age (with mass communication) for someone of normal intelligence from an English speaking country to make such a statement shows a real lack of cultural awareness.