Why Do Some Take Such Offense...

[Bugbear]

... What concerns me is what I see as a watering down of the Scottish kilt by those who say that they are wearing the kilt.And as a person who grew up with Scottish family members around me,as a man who sees the wearing of my kilt on certain occasions as a continuance of family customs that we still hold dear,I openly admitt that if only scots wore the kilt then we would not even be having this discussion.In Scotland,to the Scots,the kilt is the kilt,is THE KILT.

No Scot that I know would feel that calling the kilt what it is, is purely a matter of semantics,or word play.The kilt means ethnic identity,with strong national and historical meaning.To smile and say thank you when someone remarks 'nice skirt' is to allow yourself to assist in peoples ignorance of it.To wear things that are not Scottish in a non Scottish manner and still call it a kilt is,to me,like borrowing something without asking,and mis using it.

I do think this forum is a great thing in many ways,but the more I see the more I wonder why it's called Xmarks the Scot,a forum for kilt wearers.So many on it are quite ignorant,or uncaring,about what lies behind the wearing of the Scottish kilt.I often feel it would be more accurately called some name not involving Scotland,as a forum for men of all sorts who happen to enjoy wearing alternatives to trousers or shorts.

I respect that you wish non-traditional kilts to be called by another term, not including "kilt," on this forum. I'm not going to, though. It has been discouraged for as long as I have been a member, and I am reasonably familiar with the history of this forum prier to my joining.

[AN COIGREACH ALBANNACH]

Nick the DSM,

I made sure to express that I applaude men,from whatever background,persuasion or cultural back ground,who have the courage to wear clothing that is,while still masculine,an alternative to trousers or shorts.

If this forum is to encourage and further this sort of ability to express and exhibit various sorts of wraps worn strapped across the waist,fine.The highland Scots are not the only males in history who have found a garment that gives legs free movement with only the waist area feeling enclosed, agreeable to thier enviroment and lifestyle.There are lots of others,all perfectly valid and genuine in their own way.

But only in Scotland was it called the kilt,made out of tartan,and worn with a sporran.

These days you can't produce a sparkling wine and call it champagne unless you are a vinyard in the area of Champagne in France.I believe there are similar laws in place or being implimented for cheeses from Italy that are made using time honoured family recipies and curing methods,and importantly unique local ingredients.These laws protect the uniqueness and authenticity of the product.

You can splash champagne into a cake mix or a sauce but you cant serve up that cake and tell folk it's a glass of champagne.You can't crumble a unique,historic family owned Italian cheese(lets say it's called verona,sorry,but bear with me)onto a pizza and rattle it under a grill, cut me a slice of that pizza,with other ingredients on it,and then tell me i've just perchased a wedge of pure verona cheese.

The influence of the champagne on the cake or the cheese on the pizza is there,sure,but to steal the name of either unique item,with all of the history and pride that goes with it,and use it as the name for your branched off product is a kid on.

[Raphael]

This is what I wore for my wedding 2 weeks ago. Can one of you experts tell me what I was wearing. I am confuse now. Was I wearing a skirt or the kilt?

[AN COIGREACH ALBANNACH]

Raphael.

I am not an 'expert'.I speak honestly about what I feel in regard to the kilt,because it is a part(only a part,not even the biggest part,but an important,emotionally connected part)of what makes my family who we are.It's so much a part of what you were brought up with,Raphael.It's the upbringing,the teachings from early on that forms how you see things.

My instant reaction to what you have shown in the photo is that it is not what I would think is a normal,in my view,kilt.However it makes me think that you understand the kilt and how it can to be worn.It would make me keep looking and I would see that the sporran,the cut and length of the kilt(may I presume that it is pleated at the back?)and how it fits you is all fine,it really looks great on you.Even the abscence of tartan would make me think that perhaps you had not found or settled on a tartan,and had instead chosen the pin stripes.Perhaps you have what I in my own view would call a more standard kilt at home,with tartan,but had commisioned this pin stripe one just for your wedding day.

It would perhaps remind me of a picture I have seen of a highland gentleman whom Johnston(sorry if I have missspelt) met on his famous journey through the highlands late in th 18th century,who looked magnificent in full belted plaid,which was purple!It has been surmised that he may have had this plaid made to avoid the anti tartan rules at the time,or perhaps that he dyed what may have been an origional sett purple,again to avoid accusations of being a 'rebel'.Either way whom am I to say that he was not kilted properly.It was,however,not the norm.

If I was strolling past and caught a glimpse of your ceremony it would leave me questioning what influences made you wear it,and why you chose pin stripes,but I would come away with the impression that I had seen an unusual,but not unpleasing kilt.In short,I would be unsure!It has so many points about it though that no kilt enthusiast would fault,that I would definately be not uncomfortable in thinking it was a kilt.

I have tried to take trouble to let you see what makes me 'tick',so to speak.What things about your presentation caused what reactions in me,and why.Even in my previous threads,I do not claim expert status,and I take pains to ensure that the opinion is my own,only 'roping in' others,such as my Scottish family and freinds,if applicable,sort of like a referance.

Wheather it was your aim to be kilted in the Scottish influenced sence,or just to be alternative,both yourself and your bride look smashing!

[Freedomlover]

Or is it that all kilts are skirts but not all skirts are kilts?

Yes, that's it. It is the same as saying that all azaleas are rhododendrons, but not all rhododendrons are azaleas.

[robthehiker]

"He who takes offense when no offense is intended is a fool, and he who takes offense when offense is intended is a greater fool."
— Brigham Young


I'm never a fool and rarely a greater fool.

[The Volusianator]

"He who takes offense when no offense is intended is a fool, and he who takes offense when offense is intended is a greater fool."
— Brigham Young


I'm never a fool and rarely a greater fool.

Good to see the replies getting back on topic!

[Raphael]

Raphael.

I am not an 'expert'.I speak honestly about what I feel in regard to the kilt,because it is a part(only a part,not even the biggest part,but an important,emotionally connected part)of what makes my family who we are.It's so much a part of what you were brought up with,Raphael.It's the upbringing,the teachings from early on that forms how you see things.

Even the abscence of tartan would make me think that perhaps you had not found or settled on a tartan,and had instead chosen the pin stripes.Perhaps you have what I in my own view would call a more standard kilt at home,with tartan,but had commissioned this pin stripe one just for your wedding day.

If I was strolling past and caught a glimpse of your ceremony it would leave me questioning what influences made you wear it,and why you chose pin stripes,but I would come away with the impression that I had seen an unusual,but not unpleasing kilt.In short,I would be unsure!It has so many points about it though that no kilt enthusiast would fault,that I would definately be not uncomfortable in thinking it was a kilt.

Actually, mine is not the only pinstripe kilt in the world because I have see plenty. I chose pinstripe because I have no desire to wear any tartan for my wedding. I want something that represent myself. And yes there are plenty of pleats in the back . The kilt is also made for me by Rkilts in Straford Ontario. When I wore it on my wedding day, no one made a skirt comment and that including people with Scottish background.

I heard of people feel that if the kilt is not made in Scotland, the garment should not be refer as kilt. I understand the logic behind it, but there are plenty of Scots who moved away from their homeland. It is unfair for the Scottish expats.

It is funny that some people said that if a non-Scot wear the kilt, the person isn't wearing the kilt but a skirt. I have yet to have some one told me that in person yet. For me to refer my garment of choice as the kilt is giving the credit to the Scottish culture. I will play no part in robbing a county's culture and history and call it something else.

[Mike_Oettle]

May I remind our friend An Coigreach Albannach that while tartan is the most widely used style of kilt material, the use of plain material does not disqualify a garment from being called a kilt.
I would not regard our friend Raphael’s pinstripes as traditional, but they are certainly in kilt form.
But I am thinking particularly of the practice of wearing kilts (either the philabeg or the feile more) made of plain colour.
Queen Victoria’s ghillie John Brown wore a black kilt because, he said, he was not entitled to wear a tartan. (I did wonder why he did not wear brown, but that is another matter.) And while plain (or solid) coloured kilts have at no period been seen as commonly in Scotland as tartan kilts, they have always been there. They are definitely part of the tradition.
Your example of a purple feile mor seen by Dr Johnson is not as extraordinary as you want to make out.
Regards,
Mike

[AN COIGREACH ALBANNACH]

Mike,

Just jump back a bit and take a second read of my post re Johnstons tour of the highlands.You have misconstrued what I was getting at,but with the writen word,that is easily done.

By pointing out that even a traditional Gaelic gentleman in the 17 hundreds could be found wearing something other than tartan was my way of saying that you need not be wearing tartan to be continuing the traditions of the kilt.This is to support,if any thing,Raphaels pin stripes.I used such expressions as 'unusual',and 'not the norm'.Niether of which,within what in my view are recognizable to me as kilts,are a bad thing.

You can see from my post,I have seen plain or non tartan kilts in the past,and I find it a little baffling after my example that you yourself quoted,that you feel I need reminding of that.I don't.As I said,it's easy to misconstrue the written word.Your examples of non tartan, but still recognizable as Scottish, kilts are good ones too.