Montrose Doublet

[davidg]

Here is a photo of me in an argyl with collar. I think it's a pretty good look for less formal occassions:

That's pretty much how I would dress informally as well, although I usually prefer tab collar shirts as I find them more comfortable. I wear black clerical shirts for semi-formal (like weddings) with a black jacket and sometimes a dark blue clerical shirt with a tweed jacket

I like your sporran BTW

[creagdhubh]

Personally, I like the Montrose, Sherrifmuir, and Kenmore style of doublets with a lace jabot and matching cuffs, or a formal shirt with the jabot and cuffs already sewn on, which are indeed rare, but available. I tend to believe the lace jabot and cuffs 'finish' these style of highly bespoke and slim-fitting doublets, quite nicely - and in a rather traditional fashion. Simply my opinion.

Beannach'd libh,

[thescot]

Personally, I like the Montrose, Sherrifmuir, and Kenmore style of doublets with a lace jabot and matching cuffs, or a formal shirt with the jabot and cuffs already sewn on, which are indeed rare, but available. I tend to believe the lace jabot and cuffs 'finish' these style of highly bespoke and slim-fitting doublets, quite nicely - and in a rather traditional fashion. Simply my opinion.

Beannach'd libh,

I agree whold heartedly. And that's the way I wear my Montrose.

But for his clerical look, i kind of like his plain collar and tabs.

[MacRobert's Reply]

The other thing to consider is the time of day. The Montrose would normally only be worn in the evening at a white or black tie do. A black Argyle jacket is appropriate day or evening except, perhaps, for the most formal of evening events.

[piperdbh]

I like the collar-and-tabs look, but I wonder why the tabs factory didn't interface the tabs, so that they wouldn't be so transparent.

What if the tabs were made of knitted lace, like some of us here like to make? I think it would look pretty nice, without being overly frilly. Mind you, I'm not in a collar-wearing denomination, nor am I clergy, but I have dwelt among them.

[AFS1970]

I think the tabs look quite nice with the montrose. They bring a certain simplicity to the otherwise formal look, which to my mind is keeping with the modest look that clerical garb often is designed for. I think that the lace cuffs would actually look out of place with this look, as I think lace should be an all or nothing sort of thing and the clerical collar in place of the lace sets the tone of the whole outfit.

I am not as familiar with the montrose as I would like to be, not owning one, but isn't the collar on the jacket sort of high enough that when wearing the full collar it would not need any additional black to appear like a Roman notched collar? Or is the opening too wide for that?

[FatherWilliam57]

The height of a Roman collar is normally 1 1/4 - 1 1/2 inches, while the opening is anywhere from one to two inches. I do not own a Montrose, so I can't say for sure, but it looks from Fr. David's picture that it is at least a 4 inch opening. Perhaps he can elaborate more.

BTW: I had asked a similar question a few months ago, and decided if I ever did get a Montrose, I would do exactly what David has done with the preaching tabs. Nice to see it "in real life"!

[davidg]

I am not as familiar with the montrose as I would like to be, not owning one, but isn't the collar on the jacket sort of high enough that when wearing the full collar it would not need any additional black to appear like a Roman notched collar? Or is the opening too wide for that?

The height of a Roman collar is normally 1 1/4 - 1 1/2 inches, while the opening is anywhere from one to two inches. I do not own a Montrose, so I can't say for sure, but it looks from Fr. David's picture that it is at least a 4 inch opening. Perhaps he can elaborate more.

WBHenry is quite right as far as clerical shirts are concerned but the sizing is slightly different for cassocks. A cassock gap, under which a full collar is designed to be worn (even if many clergy don't), is between 3" and 4". The cassock, of course, is the outer "coat" that clergy would have worn daily and in some places like Rome still do

My Montrose has a collar gap of exactly 3" so it is within the normal cassock (coat) range. Fr Bill commented earlier in the thread that he would wear a full collar with a Montrose and I agree, which is what I have done in my example photo

The history of a Roman notched collar is often misunderstood. Traditionally all clergy wore a full collar with a cassock over the top creating the effect of a notch. When cassock wearing went into decline shirts were used to create a similar effect but some denominations ditched the notched look. Today, clergy of all denominations use the tabbed version with the introduction of multiple colours but there's no hard and fast rule these days

[Father Bill]

Much like our "traditional myths" about tartan, there is a "traditional myth" about notches: that a wide notch is Protestant and a narrow notch is Roman. Again like tartans, watch carefully and you will see that this is simply not true.

As for the interfacing idea, possibly, but it is traditional for the tabs to be exactly as you see them - white on the edges and "transparent" in the middle. Lace would not be considered appropriate in most denominations, just weird.

[FatherWilliam57]

Another idea I have played with is cutting a cassock down to normal shirt length to wear with a kilt, cassock shoulder cape, and biretta. Of course, it would be an Anglican style, wool cassock (as opposed to a Roman style with the bottons down the center front). Do either of you (David and Bill) think that could work properly?

BTW, I guess we speak to what we are used to. My cassock has a collar opening of only two inches, but David is quite correct in stating the opening can be up to 4".