Has any one ever seen one of these in real life?

[macwilkin]

They were usually used for a retainer. Someone who provided a service for the chief, like a herald, artist, or something along those lines. I think it would be nice if a chief had members of his clan who were maybe craftsmen or things of that nature for the clan to give them something like this as recognition of service. Just as a whim I think I may design one for my clan and see how it turns out.

Piipriker is referring to a chain of office or livery colllar, like the one worn by Lord Lyon, Lord Mayors, Masters of Masonic Lodges, etc.

T.

[EagleJCS]

If I recall correctly - it's been a few years since I've been to a Clan Scott Society AGM and seen the emblem itself - the President of the Society (and thereby an honorary chieftan of Clan Scott) wears a gorget/pendant with the chief's crest either encircled within the crescent of the gorget or pierced into the gorget. This device was introduced to the Society just a few years ago as a badge of office to be worn in lieu of/in addition to the 'chieftan's badge' - the two feathers behind the strap-and-buckle on one's headgear.

That's the only thing I've seen that comes close to what Harold described (aside fom the chains-of-office).

[macwilkin]

If I recall correctly - it's been a few years since I've been to a Clan Scott Society AGM and seen the emblem itself - the President of the Society (and thereby an honorary chieftan of Clan Scott) wears a gorget/pendant with the chief's crest either encircled within the crescent of the gorget or pierced into the gorget. This device was introduced to the Society just a few years ago as a badge of office to be worn in lieu of/in addition to the 'chieftan's badge' - the two feathers behind the strap-and-buckle on one's headgear.

That's the only thing I've seen that comes close to what Harold described (aside fom the chains-of-office).

I rather like that badge of office; Pity I found out about after my term as president of "my" clan society ended.

T.

[ShaunMaxwell]

Harold:

Not to hijack your thread, but I'm curious about the illustration. Did it come come from some Clan Drummond literature, which demonstrated various heraldic devices for Clan Drummond being depicted in cartoons of a similar nature?.

From what I can make out, it looks like the goshawk of the Drummonds. (My great grandmother was a Drummond [of Perth] and I have a kilt in that tartan... I made a kilt [from a scarf] for my girl, and felt compelled to make her a matching shirt to wear with it... Unfortunately, I don't have a good shot of the front of the shirt, which was the interesting bit... EDIT: I found the artwork, see bottom of post) At any rate, it looks familiar, though I don't recall that specific image.





SM

[Harold Cannon]

The picture is from the book Simple Heraldry.

[ShaunMaxwell]

Thanks Harold!

Looks as if several of the images were of Drummond livery (I'm sure that's the wrong word...).

SM

[creagdhubh]

I rather like that badge of office; Pity I found out about after my term as president of "my" clan society ended.

T.

Hahaha! Quite!

[MacRob46]

What Jim Maxwell is wearing in the photo above appears to be a badge of office or perhaps an award for service to his clan society. The Clan Gunn awards those and I have a couple myself.

I think the idea that the chief gave his clansmen metal badges with his crest to wear to signify their allegiance is probably Victorian nonsense. The true badge of the clan was whatever plant badge they had adopted to wear in their bonnets. I have never seen an ancient metal badge purporting to be one of those mysterious insignias

[Piipriker]

Piipriker is referring to a chain of office or livery colllar, like the one worn by Lord Lyon, Lord Mayors, Masters of Masonic Lodges, etc.

T.

Correct, that's what I meant.

link to a photo (Petra Roth, Lord Mayor of Frankfurt on Main)

http://saar-report.de/wp-content/upl...kirche-023.jpg

[Mike_Oettle]

While it seems as if Clan Drummond has seized upon the illustrations with gusto, they are from Simple Heraldry (as Harold Cannon has pointed out), by Iain Moncrieffe and Don Pottinger.
I myself made extensive use of the same series of drawings in my website Armoria (now largely defunct, more is the pity).
Moncrieffe (Sir Iain was a herald at Lyon Court) and Pottinger (a herald painter with a flair for cartooning) had a knack of simplifying the complicated matters of heraldry and making them plain to the ordinary reader.
Regards,
Mike