LOTS of questions

[ForresterModern]

Kilt= Douglas DA Modern (as per Heritage of Scotland) 8 yard, Box pleat, to the stripe
Flashes= Douglas
Jacket= Contemporary & Vest, Black Barathea?
Sporran & Waist Chain= Something dressy, but not what everyone else has
Belt & Buckle= Contemporary, but classy
Sgian Dubh= Contemporary, but classy

I am a Morton, sept of Douglas. Which is the accurate Douglas Tartan for Morton?

My mum has told me we are a sept of the Black Douglas, and near as I can tell the Black Douglas has a red stripe, but the tartan she wears most often appears to be the Douglas Modern Green or Blue, or just Douglas Modern. Some of the sites that list all of these "Douglas Moder" varieties, look very similiar if not the same, and some look very different (Dark Blue and Green with White Stripe). Maybe its the lighting or photography?,

I believe we received scarves in this Tartan, made by Locharron, this Christmas from my mum, and it is this same Tartan for a Sash she will give my wife at the wedding. Should I just go with the Douglas Modern Green/Blue?

Next, what mill should I be looking for for the wool? I've been on a few websites now looking at the Douglas Modern Tartan, and I've seen:

Marton $$
Locharron $$$
House of Edgar $$$
Strathmore $$$$

What are the reputations of these mills, in terms of quality and consistency and why the price differences?

What I'm truly after is a dark Douglas Tartan, with the white stripe, modern I believe so as to match what my wife will be getting for her sash.

Just to address some of the Douglas tartan issues. As I stated before (sorry I was abbreviated but needed to get ready to leave for work) if you already have scarves and a sash in Lochcarron's Douglas Modern if possible I would stick to that fabric for whatever else you use in the wedding, particularly your kilt. There can be significant differences in colors of the same tartan between mills, as well as some differences in sett size between mills and tartan weights even within the same mill. You probably do not need to call your tartan choice anything other than Douglas Modern as the DA and dark are redundant descriptors and can be confusing. Regarding Black Douglas vs Red Douglas and Douglas tartans, I would ignore the Black Douglas tartan as it is not one recognized by Clan Douglas, to the best of my knowledge, and except for relatively lightweight Dalgleish tartan is a special weave (read costly and long wait just for the tartan). The Douglas fortunes changed between two brothers, one known as the Black and the other the Red, a couple times because of differences in support of different monarchs during times of dispute over who was king, with the Black eventually winning out. But that Douglas Modern tartan with the white stripe (not the red stripe) is the standard for the Douglas clan now, although there are several interesting variants (I collect Douglas tartan kilts--red, black, brown, ancient, modern, weathered, etc...).

Unless you are really going to be delving into wearing the kilt a lot after the wedding I would not necessarily be concerned over the tartan mill, except as it relates to matching any other tartan you already have and plan on using in the wedding. Although some mills do make a somehwat finer grade of cloth than others, and at a commensurately more expensive cost, if you are only going to be wearing this for your wedding and maybe a few times in the future any mills fabric will suffice in quality---matching your existing cloth colors is probably more important for the wedding party.

I would, however, investigate the kiltmaker, as that is really where you want to be certain of quality work for fit and finish. Any of the sponsors here on the forum can do the job and do it well. Independent kiltmakers can do it also but have a more variable timeline based on their current demand. Other non-sponsor vendors also can make a fine kilt as well. As others have said if you are near a kiltmaker or kilt shop proper measurement can be done by them to insure best fit. You don't say where you are in the world so we are at a loss for helping you in that regard. Shipping between the US and Canada should not incur any customs duties because of NAFTA, but if you order from Scotland to be delivered in the US or Canada expect to also be hit with anywhere between 15-30% customs duties as any sizable order will be shipped via either UPS or FEDEX which automatically charge duty and then tack on their own fees to cover the convenience of them doing the paperwork. So what looks like a better cost deal from the UK may actually end up costing you more after you factor in the duty that will be assessed.

Again, good luck and congratulations.

[Ryan Ross]

Other that just repeating that I'd stay clear of Heritage of Scotland, I'd like to offer this:


I think that the sporran, and the impact it can have on the overall outfit, is greatly underestimated. You can have an awesome kilt and wear it with a ho-hum sporran, and you'll have a ho-hum outfit. But, I find that you can wear a truly excelent sporran with a ho-hum kilt, and still look pretty snazzy.

Also, unless you want to look like everyone else, I'd have a sporran hand made. It's totally worth it, even though you won't be able to get one as part of a package. And without hesitation, I'd reccomend these two makers:

http://giftshop.scottishtartans.org/fb_sporrans.html

or

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Artif...61816873864410

You won't find better sporrans anywhere.

And also, if you'd like to try and get just one sporran that's appropriate and looks good for all occasions (from casual at the games, to white tie)- in other words, the last sporran you'll ever need, I'd reccomend stingray skin, in black. All the advantage of fur, but much more versatility and durability. See what you think:




Also, on some of your other points:

If you're wearing a vest, you're much better off not wearing a belt; such is the traditional custom, it usually looks better, and it's cheaper!

Secondly, I'm not a fan at all of tartan garter flashes, and I know a lot of other folks aren't, either. I'd go with a solid color, myself.

[cable scot]

I own a John Morrison kilt and was not to keen on it.Not bad but not the best work I've seen,and after going to a localish vender look at it, the kilt was made 4in to big in the waist and 4in to big in the seat,they did not think so and told me they would happily fix it for more money.I took my money and kilt to a different kilt maker and am getting it rebuilt as we speak.All that said,your late on starting all of this call everyone in Canada and the U.S. who makes kilts in house and tell them your timeline and see who can help.I've been dealing with Rocky at USA Kilts lately and that's where I would start or Robert MacDonald in Vancouver,I have and would put my money and trust into either or both of them.

Oh congrats on your upcoming wedding

regards
Andy

[MikiP]

There is some seriously great advice on here, and the response in this short of time is amazing. Thank you!

Do you people work?? ;)

What I've learned in these 6 hours:

1.Try to match the Douglas Modern Tartan Sash my wife already has, given to her by my mum (Huge brain fart, she already got it two Robbie Burns ago, duh!). This means knowing the Mill that made it. I don't know, neither does my mum, but she bought it from Richardson's in Toronto. She swears its much the same Colouration as the Locharron Scarves we all have now, but I want to be sure.

2.Setts, and Colour variations are vast between different mills, so I have to be precise with what I choose. This is a problem, because I cannot see samples first hand as I'm here, and they are between Canada and Scotland.

3.There is a vast difference in price between the mills, though I’m told the four I listed are all very good (Marton, Locharron, House of Edgar, Strathmore)

4.I believe I will go with 16 oz. Vs. 13 oz., from what I gather its more traditional, still cool enough in summer, and I am a traditionalist with something like this.

5.Avoid some online companies in the UK, as attractive as the prices are, even in Cdn funds and with the discounts and free shipping. I could be looking at as much as 30% increase in price when it hits our border. I was really leaning towards Heritage of Scotland/John Morrison (Damn, are those prices with full packages and discounts good!). But, two people have either eluded to or told me to maybe re-think, or avoid them. A shame, because I really liked what I saw.

6. Stay within Canada, or the N.A. boundaries.

7.I’m late to the party (3 months?) and need to nail down who is going to make this package for me, now!

I've sent John at Kaltoi an enormous email.

Thank you all again, and please keep reading my OP to see if theres anything you can enlighten me on.

cheers.

[MikiP]

Oh, BTW I should clarify-

This is our "Public wedding". We eloped a week before I deployed, but really want to include our nearest and loved ones this time.

Thanks for all you congratulations, I'll pass them to my wife too.

[MikiP]

Regarding Black Douglas vs Red Douglas and Douglas tartans, I would ignore the Black Douglas tartan as it is not one recognized by Clan Douglas, to the best of my knowledge, and except for relatively lightweight Dalgleish tartan is a special weave (read costly and long wait just for the tartan). The Douglas fortunes changed between two brothers, one known as the Black and the other the Red, a couple times because of differences in support of different monarchs during times of dispute over who was king, with the Black eventually winning out. But that Douglas Modern tartan with the white stripe (not the red stripe) is the standard for the Douglas clan now, although there are several interesting variants (I collect Douglas tartan kilts--red, black, brown, ancient, modern, weathered, etc...).

Mini Hijack to my own thread here- FM, this is very enlightening. I'll pass this on to my mum. I'm fortunate you answered this being a Douglas Tartan collector (Forrest is sept of Douglas, correct?)

[ForresterModern]

Mini Hijack to my own thread here- FM, this is very enlightening. I'll pass this on to my mum. I'm fortunate you answered this being a Douglas Tartan collector (Forrest is sept of Douglas, correct?)

Forrester and its variants are considered variously septs of both or either Douglas and MacDonald, but my family tracing is back to the eastern and central lowlands and borderlands where there are documented relations with the Douglases. Since my family was never technically a clan my truest allegiance is to Douglas, although a Forrester Clan/Family Society with tartans etc... has developed in the last 40-50 years.

Regarding the Black and Red Douglas's:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clan_Douglas

http://www.electricscotland.com/webc.../douglas2.html

http://www.rampantscotland.com/clans/blclandouglas.htm

http://www.scotlandinoils.com/clan/Clan-Douglas.html

History books will have more complete and accurate information. I suggest research there for full details.

[ForresterModern]

One more wikipedia short version more about the Red Douglas:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_..._Earl_of_Angus

I have read variously that the black and red lines originated from brothers, then uncle and nephew, now third cousins, so I think a bit of the geneology and definitions are sketchy.

[lukeyrobertson]

Good sir, you can do most of your research by email. I believe John at Keltoi works with the MM Jura 16oz. He has answered many of my questions and quickly. Burnett's and Struth work primarily with Lochcarron and House of Edgar (equally fine mills). I think it will come down to which colour palette do you like the most and then which weight. I am also in Alberta and have ordered 3 of my four kilts via email and telephone.

[MacMillans son]

More to consider. Same mill, different weight can be quite different looking as well. So an 11 oz scarf from Lochcarron may be considerably different than 16oz kilt weight material from the same mill. Check mills websites for examples of the same material in different weights for visual examples.

Two American Kilt makers who I can recommend without reservation are Bonnie Heather Greene

http://bonniekilts.com/

and Kathy Lare.

http://www.kathyskilts.com/


Your time line is short, but those ladies may be able to work within it.

Congratulations on your upcoming event, and may God speed your safe return.

Best regards,
Brooke