5 Yard Knife-Pleated Kilt in Braveheart Warrior (Marton Mills Jura)

[TheBrus]

My new Braveheart Warrior tartan kilt arrived from J. Higgins today. I haven't been able to examine it in minute detail yet, but my over all initial impression is that it's a decently made machine-stitched kilt from five yards of heavy tartan.

However, going back to our previous discussion regarding pleating to the sett or the stripe, I have to say that I am disappointed in the kiltmaker's decision to pleat this to the sett. One thing that frustrates me most about John Higgins's approach to kilts is that he allows the customer very little in the way of choice. I asked to have the kilt pleated to the stripe, and I was flatly told that the kiltmaker would decide how to pleat the kilt. The result of the kiltmaker's decision was to center the apron between sett repeats and to mimic that same arrangement in the back. I will post pictures later, but I'm not in love with the pleating.

Other than that, it's a perfectly nice kilt, but now that I own a MAC Newsome kilt, I'm completely spoiled. The left buckle/strap that goes through the "buttonhole", which is quite standard, is now really annoying to me. I genuinely prefer Matthew's innovative hidden buckle/strap design. Maybe because the exterior buckle/strap seems to interfere with the buckle/strap adjustment on the inside of my belt. I don't need the belt, but I like the way kilts look with a belt when worn without a waistcoat.

Overall, I'd give the kilt a C+. The price is good (I have my suspicions regarding the labor-rate the kiltmakers are paid); the quality is average; the service (disregarding the whole pleating thing) was excellent; the aesthetics leave a bit to be desired.

I'll post photos soon with a more detailed write-up.

JDB

[TheOfficialBren]

TheBrus,

J. Higgins offers the choice of pleating style in their custom kilt (ie 8-yarders) range of products.

[piperdbh]

I doubt there's a way to get your money back for a product you're not happy with. That's too bad. When I was considering my 2nd Newsome kilt, and having learned about pleating styles, I asked him for a scrap of the tartan. I pleated it in various ways, finally deciding which way I liked best. I then mailed the piece of tartan back to him, with the pins in it, to show how I wanted it. If a kiltmaker won't at least try to accommodate the customer's wishes, it seems to me that the customer should look for a different kiltmaker.

[artificer]

...
However, going back to our previous discussion regarding pleating to the sett or the stripe, I have to say that I am disappointed in the kiltmaker's decision to pleat this to the sett. One thing that frustrates me most about John Higgins's approach to kilts is that he allows the customer very little in the way of choice. I asked to have the kilt pleated to the stripe, and I was flatly told that the kiltmaker would decide how to pleat the kilt. The result of the kiltmaker's decision was to center the apron between sett repeats and to mimic that same arrangement in the back. I will post pictures later, but I'm not in love with the pleating.

Other than that, it's a perfectly nice kilt, but now that I own a MAC Newsome kilt, I'm completely spoiled.

JDB

...If a kiltmaker won't at least try to accommodate the customer's wishes, it seems to me that the customer should look for a different kiltmaker.

Bolding mine. Right here is a perfect example of why it's best to deal directly with your kilt maker, tailor, sporran maker, jeweler, etc- they might cost a bit more, but you get exactly what you want.

That said, I still can't wait to see pix, it's a lovely tartan.

ith:

[TheBrus]

I have purchased three eight-yard kilts, over the years, from John Higgins, and only once did he allow me to even think I had a choice in the pleating. Granted, the other two times, I would have chosen sett pleating, but I didn't have any choice in the matter. And I could be completely wrong about how the kilt should be pleated... and John did explain that he only wants to make a kilt that will perform properly (i.e. hang and swing to the best effect).

While the kiltmakers are on-site, Articificer is right: you need to be dealing directly with the kiltmaker. Period. Lesson learned.

All-in-all, I am not dissatisfied enough to even suggest I'd want a refund. The kilt fits, so I'll wear it. It is a lovely tartan, the kilt was made for a specific purpose (acting as an ambassador for my kiltwalk and as long-distance walking gear), and there's nothing fundamentally wrong with it structurally.

I simply want to give an account of my buying experience for others. Take it for what it's worth, your mileage may vary. Still working on pics.

JDB

[kiltedrennie]

This is a fascinating discussion.

I'm so happy I went with an inexpensive acrylic kilt for my first. By wearing it, listening to conversations like this, and taking the time to learn I feel I'll have gained enough experience to confidently order my heirloom kilt.

Thank You!

[Barb T]

I have to say that I am disappointed in the kiltmaker's decision to pleat this to the sett. One thing that frustrates me most about John Higgins's approach to kilts is that he allows the customer very little in the way of choice. I asked to have the kilt pleated to the stripe, and I was flatly told that the kiltmaker would decide how to pleat the kilt.

This is a machine-stitched, low-yardage kilt of modest cost, correct? Or did I misunderstand? If this is correct, then I think that's the answer to the question - neither the vendor nor the kiltmaker is making a lot of money on this kilt. To give you the options of a truly custom made kilt is more costly for them and beyond their price margin for this particular kilt.

[TheBrus]

Barb, as always, you are correct. After reweighing my reaction to the kilt itself, I think I was a little harsh. There might not have been any option beyond pleating to the sett for the amount of cloth available--without making unattractive stripes. When you look at the kilt spread out from apron to apron, the sett does look evenly reproduced--so you can't really fault the pleater. It's just a big sett, and you get what you get. I really do like the kilt for fit and price and purpose. But my next kilt will be a handmade one... the cost is worth it, when you look at the quality.

JDB

PS - Does anyone know know the time difference between handsewing and machinesewing? Barb made a good point that it takes less time to sew by machine, so I'm feeling less guilty about the labor rate.

[Paul Henry]

snip....
JDB

PS - Does anyone know know the time difference between handsewing and machinesewing? Barb made a good point that it takes less time to sew by machine, so I'm feeling less guilty about the labor rate.

It's not easy to give a comparison, as they are different products, it might take me 25 hours to hand sew a traditional 8 yard kilt, but I can probably machine sew about 2 of my 5-6 yard contemporary ones in a day. I do a little machine sewing on my trad ones for the waistband, and a certain amount of hand sewing on my contemporary ones. The kilts look and feel different , some hand stitching is almost impossible to replicate my machine, and heavy cloth sewing is so easy by machine and a real chore by hand.
Machine sewn kilts can be well sewn or badly sewn, exactly as a hand sewn can be beautiful or clumsy, it's so much to do with the tailor or creator, sorry not much of an answer for you!

[Barb T]

Barb made a good point that it takes less time to sew by machine, so I'm feeling less guilty about the labor rate.

I realize that I implied this, but I didn't mean to. Actually, some machine-sewn kilts take just as long to make as a hand sewn kilt. Depends on the type of kilt and how much construction there is in it. So, while I think it is fair to say that an entirely hand stitched kilt with all the interior construction has more labor time than an inexpensive machine-stitched kilt with less interior construction, not all machine-stiitched kilts have less labor involved. Ask Steve Ashton, Rocky, or Robert Pel... If you're a buyer, it's a matter of knowing what you're getting (and not expecting more than you're paying for!!!).