Wearing another clans Tartan?

[RockyR]

I find it interesting that the waters get murky when it comes to:

1. Pipe Bands
2. Military

When you're in a pipe band, people seem to be happy to put aside their objections to wearing another's clan tartan. I wonder why this is when some have such strong opinions of it in other circumstances. The same goes for MacKenzie, Campbell, Cameron (Erracht), Stewart Royal, etc tartans in Military settings. I'm not poking fun or making a backhanded statement... I truly wonder how this dichotomy sits with those who wear them, but wouldn't wear a MacDonald of the Isles Hunting kilt b/c it's not their clan.

With the vast amount of universal tartans out there now, most held as stock tartans at a mill, I'd think most pipe bands, especially in Scotland where wearing another's tartan isn't generally done, would be looking to change their uniform to a Universal / District tartan OR have their own tartan designed and woven. I would think this especially true of new bands just forming and looking for a tartan to wear.

[Jock Scot]

I find it interesting that the waters get murky when it comes to:

1. Pipe Bands
2. Military

When you're in a pipe band, people seem to be happy to put aside their objections to wearing another's clan tartan. I wonder why this is when some have such strong opinions of it in other circumstances. The same goes for MacKenzie, Campbell, Cameron (Erracht), Stewart Royal, etc tartans in Military settings. I'm not poking fun or making a backhanded statement... I truly wonder how this dichotomy sits with those who wear them, but wouldn't wear a MacDonald of the Isles Hunting kilt b/c it's not their clan.

With the vast amount of universal tartans out there now, most held as stock tartans at a mill, I'd think most pipe bands, especially in Scotland where wearing another's tartan isn't generally done, would be looking to change their uniform to a Universal / District tartan OR have their own tartan designed and woven. I would think this especially true of new bands just forming and looking for a tartan to wear.

Easily explained Rocky, we are talking CIVILIAN kilt attire, not military and OK civilian pipe bands are in betwixt and between Military and civilian wear, but as pipe bands lean towards the military in how they operate then it seems to be recognised that the band tartan is worn without a fuss.

Interestingly, I had an uncle in the Black Watch and he always maintained that he could not wait to wear "his" tartan when on leave.

[McElmurry]

FYI

http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/f...-tartan-56450/

[Tobus]

As I understand it, the tradition of wearing clan tartans in military service started with the raising of certain regiments under a particular clan chief or title holder, who would then choose to have 'his' tartan as the uniform of the regiment. Over time, those clan tartans become official uniforms of the regiments as they were brought more formally into the British Army. And in many ways this stayed true to the original concept of clan membership. I think people sometimes forget that clans weren't just people related by blood or having a particular surname. They were made up of families and individuals who swore fealty to the chief and fought for him, or lived on his lands. Of course, the clan system really died before clan tartans came into vogue. But when it comes to serving in a Highland regiment, the wearing of the tartan associated with that regiment (which originated from the clan tartan) is a nod to the old traditions of serving a clan, and the new tradition of being identified with it by wearing its tartan. Only in this case, it's a military unit and not a clan.

The same tradition morphed into pipe bands, which of course had military origins. But also probably originated with the chieftain's piper having the honour of wearing the chief's tartan and flying his personal arms, etc. The fact that civilian pipe bands are not tied to a particular clan or military unit doesn't matter. They are just carrying on the tradition. If they choose to wear a particular clan's tartan, it is accepted in that context. It's a uniform, and the traditions of Highland uniforms revolve around tartan wearing.

That's not at all the same for individuals.

[Nathan]

I find it interesting that the waters get murky when it comes to:

1. Pipe Bands
2. Military

When you're in a pipe band, people seem to be happy to put aside their objections to wearing another's clan tartan. I wonder why this is when some have such strong opinions of it in other circumstances. The same goes for MacKenzie, Campbell, Cameron (Erracht), Stewart Royal, etc tartans in Military settings. I'm not poking fun or making a backhanded statement... I truly wonder how this dichotomy sits with those who wear them, but wouldn't wear a MacDonald of the Isles Hunting kilt b/c it's not their clan.

With the vast amount of universal tartans out there now, most held as stock tartans at a mill, I'd think most pipe bands, especially in Scotland where wearing another's tartan isn't generally done, would be looking to change their uniform to a Universal / District tartan OR have their own tartan designed and woven. I would think this especially true of new bands just forming and looking for a tartan to wear.

Rocky, it's a fair question. I'll address it from a military perspective and I think since pipe bands are modelled after the military, that should cover it as well.

1) Wearing a clan tartan and your Chief's belted badge is a sign of loyalty to the head of your family and is a throwback to the days when you would gladly take up arms to defend his territory etc... The modern clan "uniform" was heavily influenced by persons with military service.

2) Militaries need uniforms. In the case of my regiment, we wore the clan tartan of the founding Colonel. He happened to be a MacDonald and so were many of us...In the context of a military regiment, your loyalty is first and foremost to your regimental command and not your father, grandfather or clan chief. So wearing the same tartan and a uniform cap badge means you're a family (clan) with your brothers in arms. Outside of a military context, my brothers in arms are my actual brothers and my kilted loyalty goes to the head of my family, i.e., my chief.

3) You're often honouring the history of your regiment. The Frazier Highlanders for example were originally raised on behalf of the crown by Lord Lovat. Many of the fighting men in the regiment were Fraziers, others were their neighbours or in-laws. A similar story holds true for the Cameron Highlanders. People who join the Fraziers are actually joining "the Fraziers" in a symbolic sense.

4) In the case of Regiments that use the Black Watch or Royal Stewart, your "clan chief" is clearly Her Majesty and you're wearing tartans sanctioned by her.

5) I am not a pipe band expert, but my Mom was in the MacLeod pipe band and wore Loud MacLeod of Lewis as her uniform. I believe the band was founded by a Pipe Major named MacLeod. Given the need for uniformity, perhaps there is a tradition of honouring the pipe major or band founder, thus providing historic continuity within the band. If you're taking orders from MacLeod, you can wear MacLeod I suppose.

In the absence of one of these historic and well founded exceptions, I don't like to see people wearing my tartan. I saw a man decked out in MacDonald of Clanranald at the Glengarry Highland Games a few years back. I introduced myself, eager to discuss our shared kinship and history only to find out that he wasn't a MacDonald and wasn't a Scot but there he was with my tartan on and my Chief's badge on his bonnet. He informed me that he paid for it and he'd wear what he liked and that the next day he was going to wear another clan tartan. I thought he was a wanker for impersonating a MacDonald...

[Carlo]

Nathan you leave me wondering if you'd think diffrent if someone wears your tartan but not the Chief's badge?

[Nathan]

Nathan you leave me wondering if you'd think diffrent if someone wears your tartan but not the Chief's badge?

I still think it's poor etiquette but since the Pakistanis started making stiff acrylic kilts in MacDonald tartan and selling them for 60 - 80 bucks on ebay, I'll probably have to get used to seeing this a lot more often. *grumble*

[Manxstralian]

In my six months or so of checking this forum, I've seen this discussed a few times, so I'll give my "newbie" impression...
"Traditionalists" will say you shouldn't, "modernists" (for want of a better word) will say you can wear what you want, and ultimately everyone will agree to disagree.

As someone with no clan associations (except MacLean, or MacLaine, through my partner of 8 years), I stick to the universal tartans, or regional ones which I have a connection to.

I considered wearing MacLean/MacLaine, but due to a gap in the genealogy my partners family are unsure of which "branch" they come from, and since both clan associations have differing views on whether they are one clan or two, it seems like too much bother. I think I'll stick to my Black Watch, and Manx tartans. Besides, I can't see the need for that many kilts anyway.

[Singlemalt]

As I have stated before one of the things "I don't get" is why with all the Universal and Regional tartans easily available that someone would still wear another family's tartan. I have kilts in what is now regarded as the tartan associated with my surname. I wear them with pride although I know that this tartan is relatively recent invention. Still it was designed to signify a surname and a family and I think people should respect that.

I also have a couple of Black Watch (Government) kilts. Now this tartan I know was worn by many members of my family in the last century and the one before that in both the British and Canadian military. I would say I wear them with equal pride.

With all the tartans available today I don't care who you are there are many out there that you have every right to wear and probably one with some connection to who you are, where you are from, what work you do or what you believe. I would urge you to seek out that connection and find "your" tartan. You will enjoy it that much more and without the small lingering worry you might be offending someone.

[seasaidhlinne]

3) You're often honouring the history of your regiment. The Frazier Highlanders for example were originally raised on behalf of the crown by Lord Lovat. Many of the fighting men in the regiment were Fraziers, others were their neighbours or in-laws. A similar story holds true for the Cameron Highlanders. People who join the Fraziers are actually joining "the Fraziers" in a symbolic sense.

Ahhh But I am not tied to the Lovat Frasers just to complicate my life a little more. I do not bear the motto "Je Suis Prest" but instead "All my faith is in god" We are all from one area Invernessshire, but have had a lot of trouble getting beyond my great great grandfather due to no record of his parents but I can wager a guess his father was also likely Alexander Fraser. Patterson I haven't started on, because the first go around was exhausting tracking down what I could.

I think for me if it were a formal occasion or an official occasion I'd be kind of bothered by the idea but again I guess it isn't that huge of a deal from what I'm reading