Wearing another clans Tartan?

[Tobus]

As I understand it, the tradition of wearing clan tartans in military service started with the raising of certain regiments under a particular clan chief or title holder, who would then choose to have 'his' tartan as the uniform of the regiment. Over time, those clan tartans become official uniforms of the regiments as they were brought more formally into the British Army. And in many ways this stayed true to the original concept of clan membership. I think people sometimes forget that clans weren't just people related by blood or having a particular surname. They were made up of families and individuals who swore fealty to the chief and fought for him, or lived on his lands. Of course, the clan system really died before clan tartans came into vogue. But when it comes to serving in a Highland regiment, the wearing of the tartan associated with that regiment (which originated from the clan tartan) is a nod to the old traditions of serving a clan, and the new tradition of being identified with it by wearing its tartan. Only in this case, it's a military unit and not a clan.

The same tradition morphed into pipe bands, which of course had military origins. But also probably originated with the chieftain's piper having the honour of wearing the chief's tartan and flying his personal arms, etc. The fact that civilian pipe bands are not tied to a particular clan or military unit doesn't matter. They are just carrying on the tradition. If they choose to wear a particular clan's tartan, it is accepted in that context. It's a uniform, and the traditions of Highland uniforms revolve around tartan wearing.

That's not at all the same for individuals.

[TheOfficialBren]

My clan tartan, the Ross clan, is available often but never as a less expensive kilt.
I've one on the way right now and should have it in the next two weeks.
But I had to sell a lot of things to afford it where as many other popular clan tartans are inexpensive. So I've opted for Black Watch and Sport kilts Hunting tartan. Also hope to add Scottish National soon if money can be saved.
What about clan septs and those tartans? Can one who wants to keep family involved wear one if the others if part of said sept??

Septs are pretty much myth. The only genuine examples of septs that I can think of historically were actually Irish...not Scottish. If I am not mistaken 'sept' is a synonym for 'clan' in the Irish tongue. My post on this might be total bunk, though, because I might be remembering this incorrectly.

Anyone who knows about this feel free to chime in and correct me.

[RockyR]

Septs are pretty much myth. The only genuine examples of septs that I can think of historically were actually Irish...not Scottish. If I am not mistaken 'sept' is a synonym for 'clan' in the Irish tongue. My post on this might be total bunk, though, because I might be remembering this incorrectly.

Anyone who knows about this feel free to chime in and correct me.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sept

[TheOfficialBren]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sept

Bingo! There you go. Thanks, Rocky.

[Nathan]

While there are mythical septs, septs themselves aren't a myth. For example. The MacCain, MacIan, McIain (Various spellings) are a sept of Clan Donald. They are descended from the Glencoe branch and are the descendants/followers of Iain MacDonald of Glencoe. Therefore Mac Iain. They are hereditary MacDonalds but are called after another more recent prominent ancestor.

I agree with the wikipedia article that a lot of liberties were taken historically in order to sell tartan, but I also know there are names like MacIsaac and Rankin that consider themselves historically loyal members of Clanranald. This would be a perfect example of an actual sept as opposed to the spurious kinship connections drawn between all persons with a common occupational surname such as Miller, Tailor, Smith and even Stewart...

[creagdhubh]

While there are mythical septs, septs themselves aren't a myth. For example. The MacCain, MacIan, McIain (Various spellings) are a sept of Clan Donald. They are descended from the Glencoe branch and are the descendants/followers of Iain MacDonald of Glencoe. Therefore Mac Iain. They are hereditary MacDonalds but are called after another more recent prominent ancestor.

I agree with the wikipedia article that a lot of liberties were taken historically in order to sell tartan, but I also know there are names like MacIsaac and Rankin that consider themselves historically loyal members of Clanranald. This would be a perfect example of an actual sept as opposed to the spurious kinship connections drawn between all persons with a common occupational surname such as Miller, Tailor, Smith and even Stewart...

Now... how about those photos...any progress?

This is precisely why the [members of the] Clan Macpherson to include our Chief, Sir William Alan Macpherson of Cluny and Blairgowrie, TD, much prefer the term "associated family" rather than sept. It kind of works like this: Say the Clan Macpherson Association has welcomed a new clan member and his or her name is not Macpherson, but Cattanach. Members of the Clan Macpherson would immediately think, "Oh, his or her surname is Cattanach, that's a Macpherson name." This is how it is done within our clan organisation/association, and actually, how it has been done for many years. Does it make us Macphersons special or different? No, of course not. I'm sure there are other Highland clan associations that may approach it in the same manner. It's simply how we approach the whole sept issue.

[TheOfficialBren]

While there are mythical septs, septs themselves aren't a myth. For example. The MacCain, MacIan, McIain (Various spellings) are a sept of Clan Donald. They are descended from the Glencoe branch and are the descendants/followers of Iain MacDonald of Glencoe. Therefore Mac Iain. They are hereditary MacDonalds but are called after another more recent prominent ancestor.

I agree with the wikipedia article that a lot of liberties were taken historically in order to sell tartan, but I also know there are names like MacIsaac and Rankin that consider themselves historically loyal members of Clanranald. This would be a perfect example of an actual sept as opposed to the spurious kinship connections drawn between all persons with a common occupational surname such as Miller, Tailor, Smith and even Stewart...

Stated much better than I did and without the muddle. Thank you, Nathan, for clearing this up.

[David Thorpe]

Well, there are septs, and then there are septs. Our clan has only one. While there have been many various spellings and variations on the MacTavish surname, most notably the direct English translation of Thom(p)son, the 26th Chief of our clan officially adopted the Stephensons/Stevensons into the clan. They are a sept of Clan MacTavish, in every sense of what the word has come to mean in the context of Highland clans.

[McElmurry]

Here is one recent thread that discussed septs at length.

http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/f...e-septs-73115/

[Downunder Kilt]

Not quite true... the following is a Patterson tartan that is held as stock by one of the mills which can easily be obtained:

Well I am stunned Rocky, having a quick google I think I found it on a site that calls it Patterson Blue, available from Bately in 13oz. Would that concurr with your knowledge. It appears to be the same tartan as the second one I posted a link to, but in a much darker pallette
Thanks for the heads up.