What would you do?

[Tobus]

I started to read all the responses here, but I don't have time to go through it all, and it wouldn't change what I'm about to say anyway.

In short, I think ethics are perhaps the single most important thing that makes or breaks a company/business, a website/forum like this one, or a community. There are many things that can cause the downfall of an otherwise successful entity, but an unethical practice is a guarantee of failure. And it's because ethics = character.

Let's not confuse patent laws with ethics. There are many things which are legal but unethical. And, for that matter, there are many things which are illegal but perfectly ethical. We would all like to think that laws and ethics go hand-in-hand, but that is not always the case. So IMHO the topic of patent laws here is irrelevant. Even if a company is operating within the boundaries of the law where they live, if they are operating unethically, they do not deserve the respect or business of anyone who cherishes ethics (as I would hope all of our members do). We are not a government entity, and are free to choose our own standards independently of the law.

With that said, I think all of the questions posed come down to this single issue: if we allow unethical practices, or reward them, then we don't really have any ethics of our own.

So my answer is pretty straightforward. No, we should not allow businesses to advertise here who are engaged in unethical practices of any sort. And yes, we should expect businesses who do advertise here to be unquestioningly ethical, moral, honest, and of the highest calibre. I know of at least one former XMTS advertiser who was shown the door due to unethical/questionable practices, and we are better off for it.

If we don't hold ourselves, our members, and our advertisers to an ethical standard, then we have nothing of value.

[Grizzly]

I started to read all the responses here, but I don't have time to go through it all, and it wouldn't change what I'm about to say anyway.

In short, I think ethics are perhaps the single most important thing that makes or breaks a company/business, a website/forum like this one, or a community. There are many things that can cause the downfall of an otherwise successful entity, but an unethical practice is a guarantee of failure. And it's because ethics = character.

Let's not confuse patent laws with ethics. There are many things which are legal but unethical. And, for that matter, there are many things which are illegal but perfectly ethical. We would all like to think that laws and ethics go hand-in-hand, but that is not always the case. So IMHO the topic of patent laws here is irrelevant. Even if a company is operating within the boundaries of the law where they live, if they are operating unethically, they do not deserve the respect or business of anyone who cherishes ethics (as I would hope all of our members do). We are not a government entity, and are free to choose our own standards independently of the law.

With that said, I think all of the questions posed come down to this single issue: if we allow unethical practices, or reward them, then we don't really have any ethics of our own.

So my answer is pretty straightforward. No, we should not allow businesses to advertise here who are engaged in unethical practices of any sort. And yes, we should expect businesses who do advertise here to be unquestioningly ethical, moral, honest, and of the highest calibre. I know of at least one former XMTS advertiser who was shown the door due to unethical/questionable practices, and we are better off for it.

If we don't hold ourselves, our members, and our advertisers to an ethical standard, then we have nothing of value.

I couldn't agree more or put it better myself. I completely agree with what others, Regina and Tobus have said.

[KD Burke]

Others have expressed, more eloquently and at greater length, my views upon this subject. I merely wish to interject an interesting and illuminating factoid.

If one visits the website of the Better Business Bureau ( a private, consumer protection organization for those outside North America) and enters the word "kilt" into their search engine, a surprising number of businesses are listed.

Notably, a company called Freedom Kilts in Victoria, BC has an A+ rating (their highest) from the BBB.

[Liam]

All... While I too absolutely support ethical behavior, ethics (unlike law) can be shades of grey. Since Utilikilts have been discussed here, lets explore ethical behavior in the context of their product. They have a US (and perhaps a UK) patent on the reverse Kingussie pleating style. It is therefore an infringement of their patent rights for another company in the US (and UK) to use this form of pleating when making/selling a kilt in the US/UK. Now presuming that they were also the first company to do something novel such as make a utility style kilt out of canvas (not part of their patent) would it be unethical for another kilt maker to make a kilt from canvas? Similarly with box pleat kilts - Barb, Matt and Bob revived the box pleat tartan kilt. Does this mean that it would be unethical for John at Keltoi, or Rocky at USA Kilts to make a box pleat kilt?
Sometimes imitation is the best form of flattery.

Just something more to chew on.

Cheers