I would like to submit a proposal to the membership

[Nathan]

Steve,

Thanks for opening up this discussion. I think it might be a good idea to tweak the sections, because I think there could be more clarity, but I don't think it will address the so called problem that Alan H. raised and that you are seemingly trying to address.

The reason is because, in my recollection, most of these conversations happen in the Kilt Advice and the General Kilt Talk forums. Someone comes on and says "Hey whaddaya think?!" or "What hose should I wear with the MacWhatever tartan?" and people show their perspective when they weigh in. I don't think you're going to succeed in having people who think the kilt should be worn with respect to tradition keep quiet when asked for their opinion. I don't think xmarks would be served by having them keep quiet.

The non-traditional folks can chime in too. As long as everyone plays nice in the sandbox, I don't see that as a problem. I don't go to the contemporary forum and I don't weigh in on threads in there because I know they're not asking for my opinion there. However, if someone asks about clan tartans etc... in the General Kilt Talk section, it seems fair game to share my (traditional) views on tartan selection.

In my view, the only thing that will change the proportion of traditional threads versus non-traditional threads is if non-traditionalist members post more interesting threads and comment on them more.

That said, regarding your suggestion, if you're going to tweak things, I'm not sure the setting has as much to do with the choice as the perspective of the person. Certainly I've seen every type of look at the same Highland Games and a Burns Night isn't exactly a Highland event, it's a Lowland event. What about Tartan Tuesday? I wear traditional attire and Raven wears utility style garments. We enjoy pints together. Another issue I have is that traditional attire is both modern and contemporary. It's just more conservative than other fashion choices. Calling other styles modern implies that traditional is antiquated and that's inaccurate.

I don't think it has to do with the construction of the kilt or where it's worn, but rather, the taste of the wearer. So what about this:

Traditional Approaches to Kilt Wearing This is a section to discuss time tested traditional views on kilt wearing. "Now" with due respect given to "then".

Non-Traditional Approaches to Kilt Wearing: This is a section for those who march to the beat of a different drummer. Whether you wear a traditional kilt in a non-traditional manner or enjoy new styles of kilt made in non-traditional ways or out of non-traditional materials, this is the section to strut your stuff.

Historical Approaches to Kilt Wearing: This is the section to discuss how the kilt was worn in various periods in its history. Reenactors and textile history buffs, this is the place for you!

And, to be inclusive, maybe two more sections:

Neo-Traditional approaches to kilt wearing: This is a section for people who enjoy emulating the look advocated by the Highland wedding industry such as like white hose, tartan flashes, semi-dress sporrans, ruche ties, ghillie brogues, pseudo-jacobite shirts and other fashion trends that, although they haven't all stood the test of time, are nonetheless 'of the moment'.

Theatrical approaches to kilt wearing: This is a place for people who enjoy emulating the attire of Hollywood movies and putting together historically questionable outfits perhaps consisting of woad or plenty of edged weapon replicas just for the fun of it. This is for the Bravehearts and the Duncan MacLeod of the Clan MacLeods to gather.

Would that cover everyone?

[ThistleDown]

On the surface I agree that "how the kilt is worn" is far more relevant to this forum than the kilt-makers' "how the kilt is made" we have been shoe-horning in for the past couple of years.

I don't see significant difference between "traditional" and "modern" manners of dress, however, since both are "today" by definition. The problem is that we keep on throwing in old catalogs, Landseer and Ansell prints and pics of the 1930s-1950s as though they are examples for today. They are history. If we wear Highland dress in the manner of those examples we are costuming as described by Steve in his first point.

I like Nathan's "...Approaches" to how the wearer wears his/her kilt.

I wear Highland dress most days in the week. This morning that consisted of a Freedom olive kilt and this evening an inherited tartan traditional one. All day I have been dressed 'modern' and with form-follows-function as a precept.

[TheOfficialBren]

Humbly submitted, there should be some distinction made between traditional-styled kilts (tartan/tweed) and MUGS (Utilikilts, Skilts, et al). Those are important distinctions to make here.

[ratspike]

Humbly submitted, there should be some distinction made between traditional-styled kilts (tartan/tweed) and MUGS (Utilikilts, Skilts, et al). Those are important distinctions to make here.

Agreed, and I'm thinking that the suggestion @Nathan made for new sections would cover this. What I like about the "non-traditional approach" section is that it would include both MUGs as well as folks wearing tartan in a more outside-the-box fashion.

[kiltedrennie]

Agreed, and I'm thinking that the suggestion @Nathan made for new sections would cover this. What I like about the "non-traditional approach" section is that it would include both MUGs as well as folks wearing tartan in a more outside-the-box fashion.

I mostly agree. I don't have the link at hand, but the thread with the (10 or so I think) images showing versions of dress from very formal all the way to very casual would indicate a more broad spectrum of dress rather than a few distinct categories. I would probably add one or two more in the ultra-neo-casual category (did I just make that up?), but I could work within this. Too fine a division and I'd end up all alone in my own sub-forum . 99% of the time I fall into the very casual t-shirt/sweatshirt/jumper scrunched down sock and boot with a touch of leather category.

[Mael Coluim]

The term Non-Traditional strikes me as second class. Perhaps if the term modern is not exact maybe contemporary should be considered. (Feelings of Deja vu here.) The funny thing here I think its a mind set what you are emulating. Steve is thinking modern and Rex is thinking Traditional and no one else can see the difference.

I appreciate what Steve is attempting in redefining the categories and see merit in what Nathan is attempting to fine tune, but I think I'll sit in DavidPope's tent for awhile.

[ThistleDown]

The term Non-Traditional strikes me as second class. Perhaps if the term modern is not exact maybe contemporary should be considered. (Feelings of Deja vu here.) The funny thing here I think its a mind set what you are emulating. Steve is thinking modern and Rex is thinking Traditional and no one else can see the difference.

I appreciate what Steve is attempting in redefining the categories and see merit in what Nathan is attempting to fine tune, but I think I'll sit in DavidPope's tent for awhile.

Yes, deja vu, Ern. We've been here and done this. As you said, the redefining of categories by Steve and the fine-tuning by Nathan are all to the well and good, but I like the Traditional as DavidPope sees it, too -- for now -- and really think what is in need of re-work is "contemporary" or whatever we re-name it. As we are we define 'traditional' very well, but we fail miserably when it comes to describing alternative ways to wear Highland dress than what is traditional. Sad to say, but I think that has much to do with 21C confusion about what is 'alternative' or 'ab-normal'.

[Hawk]

I like Nathan's suggestions as Ratspike also agreed. I like the way this is heading. I also like posting #19 in this thread by Steve, as it shows clearly that we are an accepting community of kilt wearing people and kilt interest people, of all shapes, sizes, backgrounds, fashion sense, etc....

The only suggestion I would add was be sure to include that General Kilt subsection in the tweaking of categories. Keep up the discussion, as I'd also like to hear what some of our contributors, history folks, and kilt makers have to say ( Rocky, Steve, Bob-Ratspike, Bonnie, etc., etc...).

Hawk

[CDNSushi]

I like the direction Nathan has taken this. It seems to hit all the major points well.

[A Lenape Scot]

Steve I agree with your plan. I think we could all learn to live with that unless we want to pick knits; Which I don't have the patience for.