First Time Denied

[Liam]

BTW.... This is a great discussion so let's keep our emotions in check and learn from each other!
Remember... We don't have to agree to respect each other's opinions.

Liam

[ctbuchanan]

I can appreciate your point of view but the very fact that a forum like this exists acknowledges that wearing the kilt is not the norm, nor even an approximation of the norm here in the States (I can't speak for Canada). So when going to a social event such as a wedding I am aware that wearing my kilt (and more than likely being the only one to do so) is going to attract a great deal of attention. And weddings in social circles such as this one often include suggested attire, in this case black tie. Well, as we all know, black tie means a tux and not a kilt. So societal norms would suggest if you are not comfortable with that, don't go. Or, as I commented earlier, I ask prepared to accept the response.

Granted, we in this forum understand that in many circles, Scotland in particular, that a kilt can be as formal an attire as anything imaginable. But sadly here in the States that is not always the case. Being sensitive to that I'm aware that my wearing a kilt even in the most formal sense will attract much attention and comment.

Women can get away with cultural wear far easier than men can I admit. And certainly lines can blur in both cases. I just choose not to push the boundary that far. But as I also said earlier in dozens of cases my kilt has been welcome so, up to now, it hasn't caused an issue.

In my family which is very large, as my parents had eight children, our weddings invite the wearing of kilts and it is usually stated so on the invitation so that there is no question of acceptance.

[OC Richard]

Yes Father Bill has wise advice (as usual).

Yet, to me, specifying the general formality-level of dress in the invitation is fundamentally different than telling individual guests what they must and must not wear.

In me are two conflicting urges

1) think "what difference does it make what I wear?" and cheerfully comply

2) think "you are being way too neurotic and controlling about this whole thing" and politely turn down the invitation. To be clear, my passing on the wedding wouldn't be because I couldn't wear what I wanted, but because of the general tenor of the event, the relationship between the people running the event and the guests.

In my opinion this issue would never come up with well-balanced people with high self-esteem... such people don't feel the need to force their whims upon others.

I have perhaps a different perspective, because I used to pipe at 40 or more weddings a year. (In the same boat as Father Bill maybe.) The manipulative bossy micro-managing nit-picky high-maintenance neurotic low-self-esteem Bridezillas were a terror to work with, and I got to the point where as soon as I saw a Red Flag I would politely decline the gig.

I had a number of other pipers to whom I would refer the Bridezillas, including:

-the guy who charged three times what I did (for people who complained about how much I charged)

-the guy who had zero tolerance for high-maintenance types... as soon as they started their BS he would tell them exactly where to go (for the classic Bridezilla types)

[thecompaqguy]

While my attitude may have come across as crass, let's examine the host/guest relationship. As a host I may have the "right" to dictate to my invited guests how they should dress, but should I? They are your guests! I think it can be considered somewhat offensive for a host to suggest what form of "formal dress" an attendee chooses to wear. This becomes particularly more sensitive when one is dealing with cultural attire. And I don't want to even touch the subject of religious attire.
....Just my thoughts, not trying to start WW3

The spats over nothing are amazing, lol... 3 pages?! It says "black tie", which usually means tux or the most formal attire possible.

I once went to a function which was the same arrangements of "black tie / formal", and just assumed my smartest kilt attire would do... so I was the only one kilted in a sea of black and white tuxedos... no one turned me away, it felt awkward at first, but later on, everyone wanted a picture with the guy in a kilt and it worked out just fine...

If the invite said specifically "absolutely no kilts" that's different. The bride's mother may not dig kilts so gave you her opinion. Who knows what her daughter would have thought of kilts? She may have loved it!

People say "don't upstage the bride" by what you choose to wear, but if a kilt is better looking than the bride, her lovely dress, the wonderful venue, etc that says a lot about the wedding, IMHO... It's not about being arrogant, but people won't respect you if you have to ask them everything... there's enough on their plate planning the wedding without guests under their feet who cannot work out what formal is...

I wouldn't be surprised if there is a kilted guest at the wedding who just decided to be as formal as they wanted. If the rules are so rigid as to dress, it would feel forced to me. If I had to wear a tuxedo I wouldn't die, but I am a big boy now and can make my own decisions on what to wear formally. What next? Only certain types of car in the parking lot? Would I be turned away if I showed up in a Mercedes instead of a BMW as requested?

It is their big day, so you got their answer, next time don't ask

[TRWXXA]

I am sorry but that is an appallingly selfish attitude to take. It is for the hosts to dictate the events dress requirements and it is for the guest to accept those requirements with good grace. If they can't, the guest must find a suitably tactful excuse for not being available on the day.

Not as selfish as someone who has to control the details of their guests' dress. Remember, the OP is not standing up at the wedding. Feel free to state "formal", "semi formal", "casual", etc., in the invitation. Beyond that you are at the mercy of your guests' individual tastes and common sense to dress appropriately. If you think they can't be trusted to dress in a respectful manner, why would you even invite them?

Methinks it's not the mother of the-bride's thought that a kilted guest is dressed inappropriately or disrespectfully, but that the kilt wearer might divert even the slightest amount of attention from her little angel on HER day.

Wedding politics it what made us decide to elope (that, and the fact that I have NEVER heard ANYONE say, "Gee... I wish I spent more money on my wedding.")

[MacCathmhaoil]

There are only three reasons that would, in my mind, permit me to wear a kilt to a wedding:
1) If I were asked to wear one by the bride.

2) If the wedding party were to be kilted.

3) If it was my daughter's wedding and I am paying for it!

Otherwise it's a suit. Being invited to someone's wedding ceremony is a privilege, not a right, nor does it imbue you with any rights! She or he who pays the piper calls the tune!

[Thekiltedmohawk]

I think it boils down to what we are discussing about in this thread.

1. I'm the one who is going to stand next to the groom/bride.
2. I'm a guest at a wedding.
3. I'm piping/officiating for a wedding.

#1 and #3 can be dictated by the bride/groom of their wishes for how they want us to dress up as. I know my future sister in the law already said no to my kilt since I'm going to stand next to my brother. I respect their wish, and dress in what they want the rest of the groomsmen to dress up to their instruction.

#2 is what some in this thread offered their argument as a full-time kilt wearer, it's their best attire to dress for a formal event like a wedding, and etc. Some obligated to not dress in a kilt if the bride don't want you to even if you are a guest to their wedding. Maybe you didn't bother to ask, and ended up they are disappointed that you did not wear a kilt as they expect you to be.. Miscommunication?

Here's my thought on the #2. They don't get to tell you what suits color to wear. They don't tell you what kind of dress you can wear in the case you show up the bride unexpectedly. Suddenly, they have a right to tell you to not wear a kilt, or have to ask them for a permission to wear a kilt? The other guests do not have to ask them for a permission to dress in the suits, dresses, and etc. That makes me realize. If I'm a guest then why do I have to ask them for a permission to wear my kilt? Food for thought.

[Arnot]

I have read through many threads about this same topic. I am SO glad to be lucky and not have to worry about this sort of thing. I wear kilts much of the time. I wear trousers if I will get dirty or I do not have time to make my kilt attire presentable.

Anyone who would invite me to a wedding or other event would expect me to wear a kilt. They would likely think that I, for some reason, could not be bothered.

I never ask about wearing my kilt. I just do. I make sure, though, that I wear an appropriate level of dress for a guest. I have yet to cause such a distraction that anyone's thunder is stolen.

I really have to wonder what sort of crowd it takes for a kilted man to cause such a fuss. I would think that a quick "Hmm, a kilt" would suffice and then they could get back to the wedding. Maybe the tartan has hypnotic qualities.

[Mike S]

Bottom line would be:

If I felt strongly enough about it, I would simply R.S.V.P. " I am unable to attend".

The bride and groom can have their requirements and wishes, and so can you. If there is no meeting of the minds, don't go.

I'm sorry, but contrary to a potential bridzilla's whim, the real world doesn't begin and end with her every desire.

Suffice to say, I am happily sans wife.

[Jock Scot]

Well alright let me explain how it works with my circle of relatives and friends here in the UK. I should point out that it does appear to be common practise amongst others here too. I cannot even guess how many weddings I have been to in a very long life but at a guess say 10 weddings a year for over some 70 years or so------less a tad for my childhood years, so lets say something like 600 weddings in total.

The usual form is the invitation arrives and replied to. If the dress requirement is not stated on the invitation, then at an opportune moment two discreet questions are asked of someone who you think might be also going to the wedding and "in the know".
1. Are you going to Jimmie's wedding? If the answer is in the affirmative.
2. What's the form? Meaning first and foremost, what are the dress requirements? Is it a C of E/RC/Jewish/whatever, wedding? General background information.

After that its easy, In the Highlands its usually the kilt in appropriate attire(smart/formal), some/most(those who don't wear the kilt) will choose suits or morning dress(unusual in the Highlands) as required----visitors from outwith Scotland would wear lounge suits or morning dress depending on the formality of the wedding, they would not be expected to wear the kilt. However, care needs to be taken with the Scottish Free Church where, in my experience, a lounge suit is almost always the instruction.

The rest of Scotland could be the same answer(the kilt), but with lounge suit/ morning suit as a further source of possible requirements .

In England and the rest of the uk the instruction will almost certainly be specifically lounge suit or specifically morning dress . Although these days just either, seems to be becoming more common. What ever the form is we go with it without question.

On very rare occasion (perhaps half a dozen times in my life) have I ever been explicitly asked to wear the kilt to a wedding outwith Scotland. I would never ask as I and others would consider that as bad form, but If I have been expressly asked by the Bride's mother, or the bride then I am quite happy to oblige. Three occasions have in fact featured on this website.

Conforming to one's hosts wishes is not considered a big deal here. Weddings are where(apart from family) friends are sorted out from acquaintances and its only friends that get invited to weddings. So what do friends do? Yes, they oblige their friends who have invited them.