Identity in the Scottish Diaspora

[Luke MacGillie]

There is descent, and then there is culture.

Some of the same things "discussed"here, I seem them almost word for word being discussed between Native Americans who grew up on the rez vice having grown up off rez, normally in a big city far from their ancestral homes.......

[davidlpope]

There is descent, and then there is culture.

Some of the same things "discussed"here, I seem them almost word for word being discussed between Native Americans who grew up on the rez vice having grown up off rez, normally in a big city far from their ancestral homes.......

Luke,

Thanks for your post. I suspect that there might also be similarities between Americans with distant Scottish descent and Americans whose NA ancestry is very distant and choose to participate in powwows, etc.

I guess the tension might be between these two views:

1) "This is my cultural thing. I'm bona fide. This doesn't belong to you. I don't want you to mess it up with your inauthentic ways."

vs.

2) "Okay, you can share in my cultural thing. It's not been your organic experience, but, hey, we need all the support we can get to keep this thing alive. Just, please, try to be teachable and learn how to do this thing right..."

[Bruce Scott]

That statement is simultaneously precise ("99%") and vague ("few"). I'm not sure that the US/UK difference in historical immigration is as great as you imagine and certainly the current foreign-born population proportions are almost identical at 13%.
Alan

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13% for the US surprised me. A media release from the Australian Bureau of Statistics in March 2016 has our foreign-born population at 28%.

[ThistleDown]

In 2011 20.6 percent of the Canadian population was foreign-born, the highest percentage in the G8 countries. Almost 6,800,000 representing 200 ethnic origins. Of the non-G8 countries, Canada was second only to Australia in the number of foreign-born nationals.

In 2011 4,715,000 (over 13 percent) reported ethnic Scottish origin, 6,510,000 reported English origin (including roughly 1,000,000 thought to be Scottish or Scottish and English), 5,100,000 reported French, and 10,600,000 reported Canadian.

In 2014 Scotland's population was 5,328,000 of whom 76,000 reported Poland as their country of origin, 26,000 reported India, 19,000 reported Germany, 18,000 reported Pakistan, and 20,000 reported Eire.

[Father Bill]

Which is why, with so many ethnic interests, heritages, cultures, and aching hearts, so many Canadians hyphenate ourselves.

[davidlpope]

Gents,

Thanks for the discussion. I'll pick back up a bit later. I'm off to dress up as Martin Luther for our Reformation Day observance.

[neloon]

David,
I will try to say something useful - entirely my own thoughts and, if anything is inappropriate, I assume the Mods will delete the post.
First, a long preamble.
Our Canadian friends have the aphorism "As Canadian as possible ....under the circumstances" i.e. trying to live next a giant. We, in Scotland, also live next a giant. Indeed, after the 1707 Union, we were supposed to be referred to as "North Britain" and even when I was young, that designation was often found on addresses. (One never saw "South Britain"! ) The last verse of the UK National Anthem still asks God "Rebellious Scots to crush". In the last 60 years, Scotland's thoughts about our relationship with the English giant have become increasingly schizophrenic which, of course, may hint at insecurity but not in the way that Reiver wants to suggest. Some of this probably spills over into other national relationships such as with the US.
For example, we are embarassed that one of your Presidential candidates is half Scots (which did not stop him taking the Scottish government to Court - he lost). A few years back, we had President Obama and US senators screaming abuse at Scottish Law over the Pan Am Flight 103 tragedy - "I think all of us here in the United States were surprised, disappointed and angry about the release". Obama came over especially to tell us how to vote in the Scottish Referendum to satisfy "America's best interests". (He similarly interfered in the UK EU referendum!) This makes us feel a bit "put upon" by the US - I'm trying to be tactful - and that may make us insecure in an environment such as this site which usurps(?) our name yet where we are so outnumbered. Why should we accept any connection with a country that is the laughing stock of the rest of the world?
To give you just one example - we find it difficult to accept that people in the US who are big on An crann tara, who can't spell the Gaelic word for children and who have purloined Burns' poetry in a foundation statement should incorporate such "Scottishness" into their philosophy. Of course, that doesn't apply to members of XMarks, we know that but.... So please drop the Scottish ancestry thing - we don't see the point and it must bring some suspicion on yourselves. Especially if you come from certain parts of the US.
However, in Scotland's "best interests" some of us will continue to help XMarkers where we can. Hope you enjoyed "being" Luther!
Good night.

Alan

[Terry Searl]

In 2011 20.6 percent of the Canadian population was foreign-born, the highest percentage in the G8 countries. Almost 6,800,000 representing 200 ethnic origins. Of the non-G8 countries, Canada was second only to Australia in the number of foreign-born nationals.

In 2011 4,715,000 (over 13 percent) reported ethnic Scottish origin, 6,510,000 reported English origin (including roughly 1,000,000 thought to be Scottish or Scottish and English), 5,100,000 reported French, and 10,600,000 reported Canadian.

In 2014 Scotland's population was 5,328,000 of whom 76,000 reported Poland as their country of origin, 26,000 reported India, 19,000 reported Germany, 18,000 reported Pakistan, and 20,000 reported Eire.

I was born in Canada in 1948 and consider myself Canadian. My Maternal Grand father was Dublin born and came to Canada by himself as a lad of 12, just before the turn of the century. My great grand father on the paternal side was also Irish born and came to Canada, during the famines. Most of the immigrants prior to my birthing were from Europe where WWII had wrecked such havoc, but since then we have had a great number of Asian immigrants. Diversity is a most wonderful thing. Culture includes dress, foods, celebrations and ethnic ties to the country from whence our forebears have come. I don't agree with with including and hyphenating my forebears country but I do appreciate the beautiful things they all brought to Canada......... except intolerance....and I'll leave it at that

[Liam]

Part of the fascination of recearching one's ancestry for those who have moved from their ancestral home is to know what one's roots are. If you or your ancestors have never ventured from where you were yourself were born, then you can simply walk to your Kirk yard and look at tomb stones. 😉
It is not surprising that those who have never left their ancestral homes could understand regardless of how many times those of us whose ancestors have, try. That doesn't make either side right or wrong, but is a point where we should accept and move on.

[ThistleDown]

'I'm not sure what Humza Yousaf calls himself but his political allegiance would suggest to me that he sees himself as a Scot with a Kenyan mother and Pakistani father. I've never heard anyone called an "Asian-Scot" or a "Pakistani-Scot" but I suppose a newspaper might use such a term for brevity.'

Humza does not have dual citizenship. He is a Scot with Pakistani heritage. He does not call himself a Pakistani-Scot or a Scottish-Pakistani. I asked, he answered.