Identity in the Scottish Diaspora

**Father Bill** · 31st October 16, 09:39 AM

Originally Posted by neloon

Bill,
I think at least 3 of my schoolmates became Professors at Canadian universities. They all wore the kilt in those days so they probably still do

Alan

DELIGHTED to hear that Alan, but it seems not to have widespread approval from your land. Your opinion means more than many to me, being, I believe, from near the Sinclair end of Scotland.

**Jock Scot** · 31st October 16, 09:54 AM

Its absolutely understandable that Scottish place names should be used by Scottish immigrants Bill. It is a need carried on by some immigrants the world over since time began. It is absolutely understandable the ancestors of some Scottish immigrants should want to keep connections to Scotland by having familiar place names, playing the pipes, wearing the kilt, curling and so on and that is entirely understood, I think by almost all.

I am sorry, that is not what this thread is about. This thread is questioning how people who have Scottish ancestors can claim to be Scots. It is something that the Scots in Scotland do not understand and consequently the potential for hurt is there from a Scots point of view too. What is trying to be done here, is putting the other side of the discussion forward, a minority view on this mainly North American website I grant you, so that all can see the problem and perhaps understand where each other's position is on this, even if they cannot agree.

I have said it before and I will say it again, I don't think the two positions can be reconciled. It does not mean that we cannot try and I think David Pope should be congratulated in trying to do just that, by starting this thread.

I am sorry that you are upset, I really am, but ducking the issue will get us precisely nowhere.

**Father Bill** · 31st October 16, 09:57 AM

Jock, I make absolutely no claim to be a Scot. Period, full stop. I don't think most here do either. What we are saying is that many of us are "Scott-ish" or slightly so.

**neloon** · 31st October 16, 10:00 AM

Bill,
Here are Andrea Boyd from Antigonish and Megan Canning from 'Frisco explaining about having a Scottish background.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTc00dmvWsE
Andrea was at the Piping Centre for quite a while but has now gone back to Canada - much missed. Here she is playing
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TSVRrJmO-aI
and step dancing to the piping of Margaret Dunn
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swbbF6Po8kM
Megan found love in Scotland and so, thankfully, is still with us.

Alan

**Jock Scot** · 31st October 16, 10:03 AM

Originally Posted by Father Bill

Jock, I make absolutely no claim to be a Scot. Period, full stop. I don't think most here do either. What we are saying is that many of us are "Scott-ish" or slightly so.

No Bill, from my perspective, you are not Scottish either, sorry. You are a Canadian with Scottish roots.

**davidlpope** · 31st October 16, 10:26 AM

Originally Posted by Jock Scot

No Bill, from my perspective, you are not Scottish either, sorry. You are a Canadian with Scottish roots.

Jock,

At this point it seems from my side to be a quibble about words. Obviously there is much subtext that I am missing. Might it be more helpful if we make the noun that is being modified "ancestry", rather than an individual?

So for example:

David is not a Scot. David is an American. [This pertains to citizenship/domicile]

David is not Scottish. David is American. [These adjectives denote citizenship/domicile]

David's ancestry is (part) Scottish. [In this case the adjective denotes ancestry/ethnicity/heritage, not citizenship.]

We would never say, here, "David is American" to refer to ancestry/ethnicity/heritage. That term is pretty useless if used in that way because of the heterogeneity of ethnic groups in America and the relative youth of the country.

**Jock Scot** · 31st October 16, 10:39 AM

Originally Posted by davidlpope

Jock,

At this point it seems from my side to be a quibble about words. Obviously there is much subtext that I am missing. Might it be more helpful if we make the noun that is being modified "ancestry", rather than an individual?

So for example:

David is not a Scot. David is an American. [This pertains to citizenship/domicile]

David is not Scottish. David is American. [These adjectives denote citizenship/domicile]

David's ancestry is (part) Scottish. [In this case the adjective denotes ancestry/ethnicity/heritage, not citizenship.]

We would never say, here, "David is American" to refer to ancestry/ethnicity/heritage. That term is pretty useless if used in that way because of the heterogeneity of ethnic groups in America and the relative youth of the country.

Therein lies the difference and the problem.

All the above may appear completely sound and reasonable from your point of view. Sadly for you though, even with your Scottish roots , as far as the Scots are concerned you are an American.

**neloon** · 31st October 16, 11:12 AM

Do any of you believe - I do - that it is possible for your soul to be Scottish whatever your DNA or place of upbringing. (Jock can't be part of this because I don't think he believes in souls) I don't know how it would be - maybe reincarnation - oops, deep water here! But I used to chat (PM) on here with a US lassie who, as far a she knows, has no Scottish relatives, grew up in a non-Scottish environment yet what she knows and can say about Scotland with great dignity and understanding would put most on this site to shame. Gaelic, dancing, music - it's all there in correct balance. Yes, I expect she got a lot from books but she understood what it all really meant. It's a happy puzzle.

Alan

**davidlpope** · 31st October 16, 11:23 AM

Originally Posted by Jock Scot

As far as the Scots are concerned you are an American.

Yes, yes, I get that.

But do you object to "David's ancestry is Scottish"?

I'm trying to sound the depths of the semantics, here.

**Dughlas mor** · 31st October 16, 11:24 AM

Originally Posted by neloon

Do any of you believe - I do - that it is possible for your soul to be Scottish whatever your DNA or place of upbringing. (Jock can't be part of this because I don't think he believes in souls) I don't know how it would be - maybe reincarnation - oops, deep water here! But I used to chat (PM) on here with a US lassie who, as far a she knows, has no Scottish relatives, grew up in a non-Scottish environment yet what she knows and can say about Scotland with great dignity and understanding would put most on this site to shame. Gaelic, dancing, music - it's all there in correct balance. Yes, I expect she got a lot from books but she understood what it all really meant. It's a happy puzzle.

Alan

Wow, that was a surprise! Honestly, I believe it`s a possibility. It would certainly explain my own abiding interest in all things Scottish, and particularly Highland.