P/m Crease follow up

[figheadair]

Great video. Right at the beginning the announcer repeats the oft cited and completely incorrect statement that Government deemed the pipes a Weapon of War following the failure of the '45.

[Tomo]

the oft cited and completely incorrect statement that Government deemed the pipes a Weapon of War following the failure of the '45.

Having read some of your writings on the subject (and in the wider context of the Act of Proscription 1746 etc) I suspect some of the myths associated with this are due to a combination of "shorthand", misreading (misunderstanding) of the law and over-simplification to the point of incorrectness - I still see this happening today with new legislation - and perhaps a little bit of embroidery to sex things up and tell a better story.

Great video, nevertheless.

[kilted redleg]

Peter you would know better than I where to look to verify this but, the story I was told was that only one piper was captured at the '45 uprising. His name I believe was Robert Reid. He was sent back to England to be tried. At his "trial" his defense was he was playing his pipes at the request of the clan chief; to which it was either an attorney or a judge stated since his clan took part in the battle and was led by his playing the pipes are a weapon of war. Poor piper Reid was swinging from the gallows by sunset. If in fact this is what happened the judiciary being part of the government - hence the government declared the pipes a weapon of war.

[Bruce Scott]

Peter you would know better than I where to look to verify this but, the story I was told was that only one piper was captured at the '45 uprising. His name I believe was Robert Reid. He was sent back to England to be tried. At his "trial" his defense was he was playing his pipes at the request of the clan chief; to which it was either an attorney or a judge stated since his clan took part in the battle and was led by his playing the pipes are a weapon of war. Poor piper Reid was swinging from the gallows by sunset. If in fact this is what happened the judiciary being part of the government - hence the government declared the pipes a weapon of war.

From:https://bagpipe.news/2020/04/08/jame...ero-of-the-45/

"James Reid was then tried, whom the witneffes for the Crown plainly proved to have engaged with the Rebels, and to have acted as a Piper to a Rebel Regiment, tho’ it did not appear that he had ever carried any Arms; upon which he was recommended to Mercy by the Jury. The Court obferved upon this, that every Perfon who joined any Set of People engaged in an open Rebellion, tho’ they did not bear Arms, they were guilty of High Treafon; that no Regiments ever marched without Mufical Inftruments, as Drums, Trumpets, or the like; and that in an Highland Regiment there was no Moving without a Piper, and therefore his Bagpipe, in the Eye of the Law, was an Inftrument of War. The Jury upon this would have retracted their Recommendation, but the Court told them, it muft not now be permitted — Guilty. Then the Court adjourned to Saturday."

"It would appear that the decision to hang Reid was made by the court at York in isolation and not under any official directive."

[kilted redleg]

Thanks for that Bruce Scott!! Now we know which government agency coined the phrase " instrument of war."

[Tomo]

I have seen references to other pipers that were captured during the '45.

However, perhaps a salient point regarding Reid (if the references are accurate - one I saw was to a report in theCaledonian Mercury of November 25, 1746) is that he was he was tried and executed for high treason - not under The Act of Proscription 1746 (which came into force on 1 August that year, a few months before Reid's trial but a long time after his capture at Carlisle the previous year) and in any event the penalties for offences under that Act were fines (with imprisonment or forced conscription for non-payment) and transportation for repeat offenders.

[figheadair]

If in fact this is what happened the judiciary being part of the government - hence the government declared the pipes a weapon of war.

I disagree with this interpretation. Judges had considerable leeway in the way in which the interpreted the law and imposed penalties. That does not mean that something was necessarily government policy. In this case, there was no definition in law of the pipes being an equivalent of carrying arms and one example does not make Case Law in the British penal system.

[OC Richard]

I just wanted to mention that it's incorrect to use the letter f to replace the letter s as in "perfon".

The original 18th century type had two forms of lowercase s, the one we still use today and the "long s".

The long s was literally a long s, elongated or stretched out. It was not an f (lacking the horizontal stroke that the letter f has).

Whenever I see such errors made it makes me question the validity of the whole.

[Bruce Scott]

I just wanted to mention that it's incorrect to use the letter f to replace the letter s as in "perfon".

The original 18th century type had two forms of lowercase s, the one we still use today and the "long s".

The long s was literally a long s, elongated or stretched out. It was not an f (lacking the horizontal stroke that the letter f has).

Whenever I see such errors made it makes me question the validity of the whole.

Aside from the incorrect use of 'f' for the long s, the wording in my post appears to be identical to the report of the finding in The Gentleman's Magazine, Volume 16, for the year 1746.

https://books.google.com.au/books?id...Rebels&f=false