Castellated Hose

[figheadair]

Wow they did let their imagination run wild with the Murray portrait! I didn't recognise it.

Obviously taking original period iconography, embellishing it, and presenting the embellished version as historical, flies in the face of proper methodology.

Those re-imaginings do give us a bit of insight into the way their minds worked: play fast-and-loose with the facts, and present their own creations as being historical.

In any case the Allens' creations get us no closer to the origin of the castellated hose.

Here's another of their fantasy images in which the (plain) castellated hose are clear. I can't haven't worked out what the source for this one was but it has elements of Waitt's Champion and Piper to the Laird of Grant.

[EagleJCS]

Here's another of their fantasy images in which the (plain) castellated hose are clear. I can't haven't worked out what the source for this one was but it has elements of Waitt's Champion and Piper to the Laird of Grant.

Images like this put me in mind of paintings I have seen of the 15th and 16th century European court dress. (King Henry VIII and earlier). The leg coverings would be the main thing making it a bit different, since in the court dress paintings, they appear to be wearing tight-fitting leggings going all the way up (would they be called trews?) rather than the knee-length socks we call kilt hose.

Nothing else to add to the conversation.

[Touchstone]

Images like this put me in mind of paintings I have seen of the 13th and 14th century European court dress. (King Henry VIII and earlier). The leg coverings would be the main thing making it a bit different, since in the court dress paintings, they appear to be wearing tight-fitting leggings going all the way up (would they be called trews?) rather than the knee-length socks we call kilt hose.

Nothing else to add to the conversation.

Sorry to continue derailing the kilt hose discussion. Just let me know if it's annoying.

The terms vary by time and place, but the full-length tight-fitting leggings are often called "chauses/chausses" in the Middle Ages on the Continent; or just some variation on "hose" (e.g., Dutch: hoos). They are worn up through the English Renaissance (Henry VIII is 16th Century); Shakespeare seems to have called them just "hose". (Fun fact: since there wasn't much clingy, stretchy material in those days, the chauses were held up by tying them to your underwear.)

The term "trews" is a little confusing. Pre-Seventeenth Century, they seem more likely to be baggy (at least from waist to knee; below that they might be bound tighter), then they appear to have really slimmed down by the time they become Highland-wear. As far as I know, trews were always full trousers, not leggings.

Historico-linguistic aside: According to Merriam Webster - and despite appearances - "chauses" and "hose" have completely different derivations. The former is from the Latin for heel (which morphed into a word for shoe, which morphed ...); the latter from Old English / Gemanic for ... legging.

[EagleJCS]

Sorry to continue derailing the kilt hose discussion. Just let me know if it's annoying.

The terms vary by time and place, but the full-length tight-fitting leggings are often called "chauses/chausses" in the Middle Ages on the Continent; or just some variation on "hose" (e.g., Dutch: hoos). They are worn up through the English Renaissance (Henry VIII is 16th Century);

Ooops. Corrected my previous post. I sometimes get confused with counting back the centuries (1900's = 20th century, etc.), especially when I'm trying to do it before my first cup of coffee.

[Touchstone]

Ooops. Corrected my previous post. I sometimes get confused with counting back the centuries (1900's = 20th century, etc.), especially when I'm trying to do it before my first cup of coffee.

Me too.

[OC Richard]

Images like this put me in mind of paintings I have seen of the 15th and 16th century European court dress. (King Henry VIII and earlier).

I think that's exactly it, the Allen Brothers were taking images of non-Highland court dress they had seen, and incongruously applied those styles to Highland Dress.

[OC Richard]

Here's another of their fantasy images in which the (plain) castellated hose are clear. I can't haven't worked out what the source for this one was but it has elements of Waitt's Champion and Piper to the Laird of Grant.

Ha!

I just saw that they used a B&W version of that for the cover of Seumas MacNeill's book on piobaireachd.

I wonder if the publishers have a clue about the image's origin. I'm sure they imagine it's a genuine depiction of a piper from some unknown past.

BTW whichever Allen brother drew that obviously didn't quite understand what Highland bagpipes (or any bagpipes) look like. The pipes in the Allen drawing are a strange blend between ornate silver-mounted Victorian pipes and the stereotypical trumpet-like bells seen on old illustrations of bagpipes all over Europe. In fact Highland pipes never seem to have had such bells, nor any other sort of bagpipe now that I think about it. (Modern makers who have turned reproduction bagpipes with the big trumpet bells seen in Mediaeval drawings discovered that they waste a huge amount of timber for negligible acoustic effect.)

[figheadair]

BTW whichever Allen brother drew that obviously didn't quite understand what Highland bagpipes (or any bagpipes) look like. The pipes in the Allen drawing are a strange blend between ornate silver-mounted Victorian pipes and the stereotypical trumpet-like bells seen on old illustrations of bagpipes all over Europe. In fact Highland pipes never seem to have had such bells, nor any other sort of bagpipe now that I think about it. (Modern makers who have turned reproduction bagpipes with the big trumpet bells seen in Mediaeval drawings discovered that they waste a huge amount of timber for negligible acoustic effect.)

Definitely a contender I'd have thought.

[OC Richard]

Other than them both being pipers, I don't see any similarities.

Different poses, different pipes, different costume, one piper righthanded one lefthanded.

The Laird Grant pipes are beautifully painted, the bag is a perfect representation of a sheepskin bag from the colour to the seam running down the bottom edge and the tie-in cord binding the chanter stock in place.



The turning style survives today in Spain.



The Laird Grant pipes' drone tops are quite elegant shapes, such are seen on many European pipes and also sometimes on 18th century Highland, Lowland, and uilleann pipes.

Here's an old Highland set (no provenance which is typical) showing the bass drone top quite similar to the Laird Grant pipes and to Spanish pipes. The tenors have a different shape, seen on some Low Countries pipes.



as opposed to cartoonish pipers like these where the artist has simply put trumpets coming out of the bag. Note that the "drones" aren't in sections and 1) are too long to be turned on the lathes the woodwind makers used back then and 2) are impossible to tune.

Needless to say no such bagpipes have survived anywhere.