Kilt with blue patrol jacket?

[figheadair]

I think it's a long time since officers purchased their own uniforms.

Alan

In total, yes, but until fairly recently an officer still purchased their Service Dress, and still has to purchase their Mess Dress.

[OC Richard]

Here's an example of Other Ranks wearing Blue Patrols with kilts, Gordon Walker.

Note again that the blue Patrol tunic is worn plain, no plaid, crossbelt, waistbelt, and for sergeants and officers no sash.

The dirk is suspended by an interior strap which goes through a slot in the tunic.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CSP-KLGYa6k&t=254s

I can't recall seeing other Other Ranks wear Patrols. Perhaps it's a regimental thing.

What I have seen is Canadian civilian pipe bands wearing a civilian version of the Blue Patrol tunic.

Rather than the very dark blue, the traditional colour for Blue Patrols, these band tunics often follow the old regimental Doublet colours of red for drummers, dark green for pipers.

I've also seen Patrol tunics done up in cotton drill, in tan, white, and other colours, for civilian pipe bands.

[OC Richard]

In total, yes, but until fairly recently an officer still purchased their Service Dress, and still has to purchase their Mess Dress.

What about the blue Patrol tunic?

In Victorian times it was one of the non-regulation things officers wore. Shell jackets were another (see the Seaforth officers above).

About the origins of the blue Patrol tunic, Barnes says:

"Undress uniforms of this period (mid-19th century) had interesting features.

The blue frock coat, originally the officers' great coat or Camblet cloak, which had a cape, became so popular after the Napoleonic Wars that there was difficulty in preventing its use in nearly all parades.

It dates to the beginning of the 19th century, and even in the previous century Generals and other officers had blue undress coats. In spite of being abolished several times it survived...

In 1868 the officers' blue Patrol jacket, with much braid, took the place of the blue frock coat (which soon reappeared) and was worn by Highland officers with trews and round forage cap. It was worn at the same time as the plain blue frock which finally replaced it early in the 20th century."

All this confuses me. All I know is what I see in old photos, that jackets like what we call blue Patrols had elaborate braid across the front in the mid-19th century but by the late 19th century we see plain blue jackets muck like those worn today.

[OC Richard]

As far as Canadian military use goes, here is Pipe Major Warrant Officer Iain Lang of the 48th Highlanders of Canada.

As you see it's a rather different animal than the British version.

The jacket itself has been given gauntlet cuffs borrowed from the Full Dress doublet, and also like the doublet is worn with collar badges. He's also wearing the sash.

Yet like the British version he's not wearing crossbelt, waistbelt, or plaid.

Oddly he's not wearing a dirk, which as we've seen is worn by British army pipers in blue Patrols.

Another odd thing is that he's not wearing the badges of the office of Pipe Major.



(Here's the Warrant Officer badge of rank worn between the Pipe Major badges of office)

[berend]

After a long search on the internet, i managed to find just one photo of black watch officers wearing a blue patrol jacket and kilt with dress sporran.
And they are not pipe majors...
No belts or sashes

The photo, as the capture says is from the south-african period

[OC Richard]

That's a great photo!

2nd Battalion. I wonder if that way of wearing blue Patrols was limited to the 2nd Battalion, or all Battalions of that regiment, or if it was more widespread in Highland regiments than I had realised.

[berend]

So it looks like the black watch for certain could wear a kilt with the blue patrol tunic.
I just found this picture of officers of the 4th black watch at monzie camp 1914
http://www.greatwardundee.com/at-the-front/dundees-own/

greetings rene

[jf42]

Considering the monochrome tones -for instance in comparison with glengarry and kilt fabric- is it certain that the frocks in these photographs are not scarlet?