Ghillie brogues - why the dislike and resentment..?

[TheVintageLibertine]

Reading through this thread, it seems like a lot of complaints regarding ghillie brogues relate to the quality and comfort of what is available today.

My career requires a suit and tie everyday and I am often on my feet for four hours straight. Accordingly, I have become well acquainted with the qualities that make a comfortable and durable dress shoes over the years. My go to brand for daily wear is Alden, because they work for me and I am willing to pay a (very high) premium for shoes that look good, last a long time, and don’t hurt my feet. The philosophy behind this (or self-justification of the expense, if you prefer) is that the most expensive shoes you will ever buy is the pair you only wear once because they are uncomfortable.

Last time I was shopping for ghillie brogues, I really couldn’t find anything at a comparable price/quality to what I wear daily. IIRC, Loake and/or Cheany may’ve made them some at one point, but they didn’t have them in my size. I ended up getting some by “Thistle Shoes” which I find serviceable, but usually default to an old pair of buckle brogues for formal wear, normal full brogues, or walking boots, depending on the occasion.

[Jock Scot]

This is a perennial discussion about ghillie brogues that goes around this website from time to time and appears to go round and round without any sensible conclusion. Frankly, it gets rather tiresome. To my mind one either likes them or one doesn't, its that simple.

If you like them, then wear them. If you don't then, well, don't!

[Ivor]

There seems to be two subjects that provoke endless controversy, one of which is white socks and the other styles of footwear. Discussion of these can become quite heated and, like this thread, continue ad infinitum. And then someone comes along who, like Jock, sums it up perfectly as you either like it or you don’t, so live with it.

[OC Richard]

There seems to be two subjects that provoke endless controversy, one of which is white socks...

That's just the comings and goings of fashion.

I well remember when the gleaming pure white hose first appeared on the feet of some of the world's top Pipe Bands and they were suddenly the height of fashion, with all the bands scrambling to get them.

Then inevitably the wheel of fashion turned and the world's top Pipe Band suddenly switched to black hose, and if your band was wearing white you were announcing to everyone that you were living under a rock.

Be around long enough and you see these repeated 20-year cycles, just as you do in the world of non-Highland fashion.

[Jock Scot]

That's just the comings and goings of fashion.

I well remember when the gleaming pure white hose first appeared on the feet of some of the world's top Pipe Bands and they were suddenly the height of fashion, with all the bands scrambling to get them.

Then inevitably the wheel of fashion turned and the world's top Pipe Band suddenly switched to black hose, and if your band was wearing white you were announcing to everyone that you were living under a rock.

Be around long enough and you see these repeated 20-year cycles, just as you do in the world of non-Highland fashion.

I have never been convinced that traditional highland attire, in Scotland, has ever seriously followed pipe band fashions. For sure some might ,but certainly in the Highlands here in Scotland I do not see THCD being guided by what pipe bands are wearing and never have. Perhaps the kilt hire industry might be? I really don't know.

[Ivor]

From an interested observer’s view, my consideration is that highland dress is a distinct form of dress, not a divergence from what some may call “Saxon dress” i.e. a suit, 2 or 3 piece, with shirt and tie and usually black shoes, sometimes described here in American terms as “wingtips”. Presumably this distinctiveness derived from a separate source and a truly representative form of distinctive Scottish dress would be a kilt(obviously) with Doublet and jabot, patterned hose perhaps to match the tartan of the kilt and footwear of a distinctive Scottish kind. Anything else becomes a parody of English or “ Saxon” clothing and, while perfectly acceptable and perhaps even more practical, detracts from the purpose of dressing in an authentic way. A great deal of scorn is expressed here from time to time about dress choices, particularly when it comes to footwear but also socks and even shirts, but if Scottish dress is to continue as a unique and distinctive form then ghillie brogues and even buckle brogues must remain an integral part.

[Jock Scot]

From an interested observer’s view, my consideration is that highland dress is a distinct form of dress, not a divergence from what some may call “Saxon dress” i.e. a suit, 2 or 3 piece, with shirt and tie and usually black shoes, sometimes described here in American terms as “wingtips”. Presumably this distinctiveness derived from a separate source and a truly representative form of distinctive Scottish dress would be a kilt(obviously) with Doublet and jabot, patterned hose perhaps to match the tartan of the kilt and footwear of a distinctive Scottish kind. Anything else becomes a parody of English or “ Saxon” clothing and, while perfectly acceptable and perhaps even more practical, detracts from the purpose of dressing in an authentic way. A great deal of scorn is expressed here from time to time about dress choices, particularly when it comes to footwear but also socks and even shirts, but if Scottish dress is to continue as a unique and distinctive form then ghillie brogues and even buckle brogues must remain an integral part.

I quite agree. Although it would help greatly if people could differentiate between pipe band attire and traditional civilian kilt attire . Which is not the same. It is certainly similar, but absolutely not the same.

[FossilHunter]

From an interested observer’s view, my consideration is that highland dress is a distinct form of dress, not a divergence from what some may call “Saxon dress” i.e. a suit, 2 or 3 piece, with shirt and tie and usually black shoes, sometimes described here in American terms as “wingtips”. Presumably this distinctiveness derived from a separate source and a truly representative form of distinctive Scottish dress would be a kilt(obviously) with Doublet and jabot, patterned hose perhaps to match the tartan of the kilt and footwear of a distinctive Scottish kind. Anything else becomes a parody of English or “ Saxon” clothing and, while perfectly acceptable and perhaps even more practical, detracts from the purpose of dressing in an authentic way. A great deal of scorn is expressed here from time to time about dress choices, particularly when it comes to footwear but also socks and even shirts, but if Scottish dress is to continue as a unique and distinctive form then ghillie brogues and even buckle brogues must remain an integral part.

I think your statement misses a few points. The most important of which is the strong possibility, discussed already in this thread, that the open topped shoe, laced around the ankle, that eventually became known as the ghillie shoe, may well have been invented whole-cloth by a pair of charlatans. There seems to be ample evidence that buckle shoes were quite popular at one point but they were not uniquely Highland or even Scottish. George Washington wore buckle shoes.

On the other hand, brogued shoes of any kind seem to have originated in Scotland and have a unique position in Highland formal wear since brogues are emphatically in the realm of informal shoe when it comes to Saxon dress. In fact, far from simply being a simple divergence from Saxon dress, traditional highland dress has a number of elements of what is acceptable for a given formality level that make it unique from Saxon dress. That doesn’t mean there hasn’t been cross pollination over the last 200 years but I think it’s incorrect to simply attribute wearing a tie and real shoes with a kilt to a Saxonization of Highland dress. These are two counties sharing a small island and a long shared, if often rocky, history. It’s almost amazing that Highland dress has managed to stay as unique as it is.

[Jock Scot]

This is a perennial discussion about ghillie brogues that goes around this website from time to time and appears to go round and round without any sensible conclusion. Frankly, it gets rather tiresome. To my mind one either likes them or one doesn't, its that simple.

If you like them, then wear them. If you don't then, well, don't!

I am sorry to repeat a post and the discussion has moved on a tad, but perhaps its still appropriate?

[OC Richard]

Reading through this thread, it seems like a lot of complaints regarding ghillie brogues relate to the quality and comfort of what is available today.

Last time I was shopping for ghillie brogues, I really couldn’t find anything at a comparable price/quality to what I wear daily. IIRC, Loake and/or Cheany may’ve made them some at one point, but they didn’t have them in my size. I ended up getting some by “Thistle Shoes” which I find serviceable...

My whole life I've always been "an easy fit" for shoes- my feet happen to be close to the norm or default of most makers.

When I was required to buy my first pair of Ghillies in the 1970s (having joined my first Pipe Band) I found the same was true- I bought a pair of Keltic brand Ghillies which were extremely comfortable.

But now Keltic are gone and none of the very few choices (Thistle, Gaelic Themes, Avriel) fit my previously-normal feet.