Hats

**OC Richard** · 27th January 25, 08:59 AM

Being an American, one who used to live in a place that can have heavy rain, and now lives in a place with brutal sun, a hat would be a must.

And not just any kind of hat, but a hat with a brim that can keep sun off the face, ears, and back of neck, and keep rain from pouring down your face and the back of your jacket collar.

I would go with one of the tweed hats which are worn both in Scotland and Ireland for outdoor in-the-weather activities, such as the sorts of hats variously called Trilby, Elgin, Newmarket, Grouse, Shooting, Walking, Fishing, etc.

**Jock Scot** · 27th January 25, 01:27 PM

Originally Posted by OC Richard

Being an American, one who used to live in a place that can have heavy rain, and now lives in a place with brutal sun, a hat would be a must.

And not just any kind of hat, but a hat with a brim that can keep sun off the face, ears, and back of neck, and keep rain from pouring down your face and the back of your jacket collar.

I would go with one of the tweed hats which are worn both in Scotland and Ireland for outdoor in-the-weather activities, such as the sorts of hats variously called Trilby, Elgin, Newmarket, Grouse, Shooting, Walking, Fishing, etc.

Interestingly we rarely see the "bucket style" of hat, illustrated above, here in Scotland particularly with the kilt.The "fore and aft"(top right in the picture) is almost standard attire as a countryman's bonnet and is not unusual to be seen worn with the kilt, particularly when the weather does not oblige.

**OC Richard** · 28th January 25, 08:14 AM

Originally Posted by Jock Scot

The "fore and aft"(top right in the picture) is almost standard attire as a countryman's bonnet and is not unusual to be seen worn with the kilt, particularly when the weather does not oblige.

I really like the look of those but I've yet to get one. I didn't know what they were called, thanks for that.

**Jock Scot** · 28th January 25, 08:36 AM

Originally Posted by OC Richard

I really like the look of those but I've yet to get one. I didn't know what they were called, thanks for that.

Thats great! However, be aware there is another style that looks similar, but with flaps on. Often called a "Sherlock Holmes", I and others would call it a "Deer Stalker". You need to be aware of this, as the THREE names are often ,rather confusingly, mixed up depending on who is selling them. Both styles are good and the flaps do have their practical uses in wet and windy conditions found out on the hill, river, or loch, although perhaps they look a tad theatrical. Both styles are a common sight in the more rural areas and particularly amongst those that partake in country sports.

BE WARNED!

Make certain sure that you are buying the bonnet that you think you are buying! It is very, VERY easy to end up talking at cross purposes with the vendor. Pitfalls are present to trip up the unwary. Genuine and honest mistakes are lurking, due to this shambles of labelling.

**Jock Scot** · 29th January 25, 05:48 AM

Do you know, I am not at all sure that buying a bonnet over the internet is a good idea, with a deer stalker(using a general description), as the fit is critical. Just so you know, if we take your picture of the "fore and aft" used in this thread, the "bump" on the hat band is always worn on the left, looking forward.

**OC Richard** · 29th January 25, 07:09 AM

Thanks Jock!

I've always wanted one of those hats, and I just now bought one, a vintage one by Dunn & Co (centre bottom).

Rare to find things big enough for my fat head, but it just popped up this morning, size 62.

I've made a new collage showing more tweed hat styles:

Note the various patterns. Top left and top right have the top made from a separate oval piece. The two hats centre top have a long rectangular central piece going over the top front to back, with semicircular side panels. Bottom centre and right have the top made like pie slices with a button where they meet at top. Bottom left is essentially a Fedora made from tweed.

BTW I looked up Dunn & Co, quite an interesting history.

Founded by a Birmingham Quaker in 1887 by 1930 they had 200 hat shops on High Streets across Britain.

In 1996 their existing 130 shops were losing millions and went into receivership.

**Jock Scot** · 29th January 25, 07:47 AM

Well done, The bottom centre and bottom right pictures are very familiar shapes here! I hope it fits!

The history of Dunn & Co. is an interesting one and it near demise is a sign of the times, I am afraid.

Just in case those who are unfamiliar with these bonnets, the bottom right picture is not usually worn with the flaps down!They are usually worn with the flaps tied up with a bow above the head. However out on the hill, or by the waterside in wild and wet weather those flaps are worn down and tied under the chin and are a godsend!

**Troglodyte** · 9th March 25, 02:38 AM

Originally Posted by Jock Scot

Thats great! However, be aware there is another style that looks similar, but with flaps on. Often called a "Sherlock Holmes", I and others would call it a "Deer Stalker". You need to be aware of this, as the THREE names are often ,rather confusingly, mixed up depending on who is selling them. Both styles are good and the flaps do have their practical uses in wet and windy conditions found out on the hill, river, or loch, although perhaps they look a tad theatrical. Both styles are a common sight in the more rural areas and particularly amongst those that partake in country sports.

BE WARNED!

Make certain sure that you are buying the bonnet that you think you are buying! It is very, VERY easy to end up talking at cross purposes with the vendor. Pitfalls are present to trip up the unwary. Genuine and honest mistakes are lurking, due to this shambles of labelling.

The flapped sort I have always known as a deer-stalker (although Sherlock Holmes only ever wore a '...flapped travelling-cap...' according to Dr Watson), and the fore-and-aft as just that, or as a ghillie-cap - which is what I generally call it. The great thing about the style is that they can be folded flat, peak-to-peak, and stuffed in a bag or pocket very conveniently.

My father used to refer to his tweed bucket-hat as a 'Paddy-hat' for reasons he never explained to me.

The trouble is there is no set name for any of the hat styles, although generic terms like 'county cap' are usually unterstood by everyone to mean a tweed flat-cap.

You're dead right, Jock, urging caution when buying hats online - as each retailer has their own set of terminology. The eight-section cap is a good example, being known variously as a 'newsboy', 'bakerboy', 'Gatsby' and I have even heard it called a 'pudding'.

What I object to is the insistence by the wearer to curl the peak (you now see it done on classic flat-caps) into some sort of arch, and have it pulled down over their eyes. This tells me what the wearer has been watching on telly, and thinks gives them an authentic 'countryman' appearance, but it seems to be a baseball-cap thing that is done with the tweed baseball-caps retailers.

You can always spot a 'fashion tweed' sportsman in his choice of tweeds and style of wearing. You occasionally see an old boy with his cap shaped by years of use, pulled tight on his his head, and curiously off centre and to one side. I wonder how many seasons the fashion tweeds last...

**Jock Scot** · 9th March 25, 03:03 AM

Originally Posted by Troglodyte

The flapped sort I have always known as a deer-stalker (although Sherlock Holmes only ever wore a '...flapped travelling-cap...' according to Dr Watson), and the fore-and-aft as just that, or as a ghillie-cap - which is what I generally call it. The great thing about the style is that they can be folded flat, peak-to-peak, and stuffed in a bag or pocket very conveniently.

My father used to refer to his tweed bucket-hat as a 'Paddy-hat' for reasons he never explained to me.

The trouble is there is no set name for any of the hat styles, although generic terms like 'county cap' are usually unterstood by everyone to mean a tweed flat-cap.

You're dead right, Jock, urging caution when buying hats online - as each retailer has their own set of terminology. The eight-section cap is a good example, being known variously as a 'newsboy', 'bakerboy', 'Gatsby' and I have even heard it called a 'pudding'.

What I object to is the insistence by the wearer to curl the peak (you now see it done on classic flat-caps) into some sort of arch, and have it pulled down over their eyes. This tells me what the wearer has been watching on telly, and thinks gives them an authentic 'countryman' appearance, but it seems to be a baseball-cap thing that is done with the tweed baseball-caps retailers.

You can always spot a 'fashion tweed' sportsman in his choice of tweeds and style of wearing. You occasionally see an old boy with his cap shaped by years of use, pulled tight on his his head, and curiously off centre and to one side. I wonder how many seasons the fashion tweeds last...

We are fellow thinkers here and particularly on that dreadful modern idea of "curving" the cap brim. "Paddy Hat"!My father also used that description for those "bucket" hats! It sounds like it might have been a generational thing?