Fly Plaid at Burns Supper?

[OC Richard]

All my questioning in this thread stemmed from curiosity regarding what happens at Burns Night Suppers, both in Scotland and around the world.

I am pretty familiar with what constitutes contemporary day and evening highland wear, but curious just because Burns Night is special whether there might be ways beyond wearing clothes he and his friends probably never wore to mark the occasion.

About other places I don't know, but here in California men who own Highland Evening Dress will wear it, and men who don't will be wearing blazers, suits, or (less often) tuxedos.

The men in Highland Dress do tend to push the boat out; with many of the gents the motto for the evening is "let nothing be left behind". It is a night of empty closets and cupboards.

Though some men will have tasteful traditional modern Highland outfits other men evidently didn't get the memo from 1920 to leave dirks, crossbelts, swords, plaids, brooches, pins, bonnets, hackles, and feathers at home.

[TheVintageLibertine]

Do we have a good idea HOW they would have dressed for that memorial celebration? Perhaps more relevant, what do we know about how Burns himself dressed, particularly later in his life, after it was clear there was more money to be made from writing wonderful verse than from farming infertile land? And, so far as "costumes" vs. customary semi-formal dress is concerned, couldn't virtually ANY wearing of kilts (except for weddings, graduations, and perhaps clan gatherings) be considered "costuming" rather than "custom," ESPECIALLY in Scotland?

We have a fairly good idea of how Robert Burns dressed, because he sat for several portraits during his lifetime. I am not aware of any likeness depicting him as wearing any clothing which can be described as uniquely “Scottish”.

Here is a link to known portraits, some from his lifetime, and others made after his death:

http://www.robertburns.org.uk/burns_appearance.htm

As far as the attendees of the early Burns Suppers held by his friends, in all probability, they dressed as Burns did, because they came from essentially the same socioeconomic/class background and general region as him, i.e., other intellectual/literary types, friends from his Masonic lodge, etc.

While a common theme in Burns’s work is a celebration of Scottish identity, as a lowlander who lived from 1759 to 1796, highland dress just was’t part of his conception of Scottishness.

[Janner52]

I see men attending themed "Dickens Balls" or "Victorian Balls", where everyone not in Highland Dress is wearing period costume, wearing 20th century Highland outfits, especially Prince Charlies (which didn't appear until the Edwardian period), the sorts of sporrans that didn't appear until after WWI, and the white hose + Viking-laced Ghillies, or "semi dress" sporrans, both Kilt Hire c1980 things. (Even the gent wearing the red military doublet seen below is anachronistic for a Dickens event; that style of doublet and sporran didn't exist until around 1870.)

The photo of the man wearing the military doublet troubles me somewhat. He is clearly wearing his chevrons on the wrong arm. Right arm only in that uniform. His sash and medals are correctly worn so it is not a mirror image. His friend clearly got dressed in the dark.
Hope I am not offending anyone but I do wish people would seek help when wearing unfamiliar attire.

[figheadair]

The photo of the man wearing the military doublet troubles me somewhat. He is clearly wearing his chevrons on the wrong arm. Right arm only in that uniform. His sash and medals are correctly worn so it is not a mirror image. His friend clearly got dressed in the dark.
Hope I am not offending anyone but I do wish people would seek help when wearing unfamiliar attire.

There was a period (Crimea era) when NCOs and SNCOs wore their rank on both arms. It may be that that re-enactment uniform is supposed to represent that era and you're just not seeing the other arm/

ScotsGuardClrSgtWmMcGregor.jpg

[tripleblessed]

Hear, hear!

I'm so indebted to Jock Scot's tireless, kind, but firm guidance over the years. Americans like myself coming to this topic don't know what they don't know (until someone tells them).

I do very little social media; X Marks is the majority. Jock is a real gift to us all. I am unceasingly amazed at his patience and continuing willingness to engage with us, and muchly grateful for same.

[jsrnephdoc]

While a common theme in Burns’s work is a celebration of Scottish identity, as a lowlander who lived from 1759 to 1796, highland dress just was’t part of his conception of Scottishness.

Thanks SO much for that, and for the link to the Alexandria Burns Club website, wherein we can see descriptions of people who commemorated Burns's life and work as long as 140 years ago and photos of people so doing today in the very part of Scotland where he lived. The attendees (? exclusively male) tend to be dressed as men might dress today for a gentlemen's business club luncheon.

While some tartan is in evidence, it's principally on pipers, and among guests seemingly more often in trews or waistcoats than in kilts, though kilted guests ARE present, some chosen for recitation roles.

Bottom line for me is that I shouldn't worry about offending anyone more knowledgeable than I so long as I don't look like I just stepped off a parade route where I was drum major, and whatever I wear, there won't be any feathers protruding from whatever hat I wear (and I hope I haven't ruffled any with this post).

[Jock Scot]

I do very little social media; X Marks is the majority. Jock is a real gift to us all. I am unceasingly amazed at his patience and continuing willingness to engage with us, and muchly grateful for same.

Steady on chaps, but thank you for the compliments.

[OC Richard]

There was a period when NCOs and SNCOs wore their rank on both arms.

It may be that that re-enactment uniform is supposed to represent that era and you're just not seeing the other arm.

Yes I think so. According to Barnes chevrons were worn on both arms in the Highland regiments until 1881.

What I was noticing was the style of doublet.

19th century Highland military jackets went through four stages which allow the time-period of any vintage image to be known. Film costumers and re-enactors must be careful, or be caught out.

c1800 to 1854 the Highland regiments wore coatees similar to the rest of the army, but with shorter tails. Oddly, coatees were revived twice, once c1900 for the civilian Prince Charlie coatee, and then in 1953 for the Coronation No1 Dress Archer Green coatee. (A coatee is a jacket which ends at the waist in the front but has tails in the back.)

In 1855 all Highland soldiers were put into double-breasted doublets with square buttons and slash cuffs. (Pipers of some regiments had been wearing doublets since c1840.) Note the clearly pocketlike Tashes. (A doublet is a jacket with four pockets or tashes, two in front, two in back, extending below the waist.)

1856 saw quick replacement by a single-breasted doublet with round buttons. (The pipers of the 79th Foot retained square ones.)

In 1868 the final form of the doublet appeared, with the earlier slash cuffs replaced by gauntlet cuffs, the piping on the collar shifted to the bottom, and the piping on epaulettes disappeared. (Pipers of some regiments had been wearing gauntlet cuffs since c1840.)

[figheadair]

An excellent summary Richard.

[Troglodyte]

Hear, hear!

I'm so indebted to Jock Scot's tireless, kind, but firm guidance over the years. Americans like myself coming to this topic don't know what they don't know (until someone tells them).



Which nonsense has experienced a massive recent infusion (the last thing it needed) from Outlander.

One theme of this thread has been a puzzling thing I've often mentioned: in the mind of the American public Highland Dress floats in a bubble outside the passage of time.

This leads Americans who would never think of wearing an item or two of 18th century clothing when dressed for their day-to-day activities to do so when they don Highland Dress.

Would they show up for a wedding in an ordinary modern suit but wearing a Tricorn hat?

But with Highland Dress time itself evidently doesn't exist, and they'll walk around wearing various bits of historical 18th century and Victorian clothing with their otherwise modern Scottish outfit.

The flip side of wearing historical items at ordinary modern functions wearing modern items at historical functions, and I see that too.

I see men attending themed "Dickens Balls" or "Victorian Balls", where everyone not in Highland Dress is wearing period costume, wearing 20th century Highland outfits, especially Prince Charlies (which didn't appear until the Edwardian period), the sorts of sporrans that didn't appear until after WWI, and the white hose + Viking-laced Ghillies, or "semi dress" sporrans, both Kilt Hire c1980 things. (Even the gent wearing the red military doublet seen below is anachronistic for a Dickens event; that style of doublet and sporran didn't exist until around 1870.)

Don't be too hard on your fellow countrymen...

There are plenty of kilted revellers (they who ought to know better) at the Perth Ball or the Calledonian Ball in London whose rig sadly suspect.