New old loom for weaving tartan

[NHhighlander]

I'll tell the stories later, but for now, here.

Day one.

The basic concept is a single-width loom, prioritizing in order:

1. productivity and quality (this one mostly evenness). Mandatory, then, flying shuttle and automated positive take-up (this is a thingamabob that pulls in the fabric exactly the distance of one pick as each new thread is added, assuring exact squares)
2. reasonable imitation of a 1780s AD loom as might have existed in Nova Scotia in the log cabin of a former crofter. No metal or plastic. Flying shuttle fits just barely within that era, the auto take-up is clearly an anachronism, but I need it (or feel that I need it...). I'm having so much fun with this half-valid excuse to do tenon-and-mortise! Just feels right.
3. sustainability, as in rescued materials. Originally I wanted to build it with ancient barn wood, but I got antsy and just grabbed some lumber I had around for a household project. Cheating here, I guess, but next one will be with pallet wood, yay!

Design started from James D. Scarlett's "How To Weave Fine Cloth," the one book that got me through much confusion that had me stuck a long time, besides being a most entertaining read. I purchased a copy on the advice of our most learned and generous historian, @figheadair. While I am old fashioned and needed the paper copy, Scarlett's is in the Internet Archive for loan, https://archive.org/details/isbn_0835929868

[NHhighlander]

On the second day, the "static" portion is completed (or so I hope!). What is missing is all the parts that move, of which there are quite a few.



I am happy that it is quite firm, but with a healthy amount of "give." The way a wood ship should be, one of the advantages of treenail construction, metal does not have that give. This is of course a "remains to be seen." A loom gets quite a beating, as can be seen in a youtube I saw in Xmarks from @figheadair that I cannot find any more, sorry... In wood ships, the treenails expand because wet making all the build tighter. Also, working with pine wood is new to me (in "my" Highlands, eucalyptus is common, and gets incredibly hard as it ages, while pine is a luxury. Being softer, it feels more likely to lose its initial tightness). Oh well, there's always glue to fall back on...

(notice that the treenail is horizontal. Bad idea, in this stance it will be snagging clothes and pocking ribs. Will fix that tomorrow, as I'll take Sunday off)

[jsrnephdoc]

On the second day, the "static" portion is completed (or so I hope!). What is missing is all the parts that move, of which there are quite a few.



I am happy that it is quite firm, but with a healthy amount of "give." The way a wood ship should be, one of the advantages of treenail construction, metal does not have that give. This is of course a "remains to be seen."

A few months back, I mused here regarding whether one way of previewing what a long-unwoven tartan would look like "in the cloth" rather than as a .jpeg file would be to have it woven on a hand loom by a hobbyist. No less a source than figheaadair responded that was just a bridge too far, but I NEVER imagined getting a response that could be paraphrased "I'll get right to it, as soon as I finish building the loom."

[NHhighlander]

A few months back, I mused here regarding whether one way of previewing what a long-unwoven tartan would look like "in the cloth" rather than as a .jpeg file would be to have it woven on a hand loom by a hobbyist. No less a source than figheaadair responded that was just a bridge too far, but I NEVER imagined getting a response that could be paraphrased "I'll get right to it, as soon as I finish building the loom."

Actually... Looking among the old posts on "weaving," someone who appears to be or have been a MAJOR collector of swatches, Patty something if I recall, was asking about weaving a sample in a frame loom. He even got Dr. Tewksbury confused, as it seemed kind of a very out-of-the-box notion. However, it made me ponder.

Bottom line, I agree with you both.
One and yes indeed, an actual sample beats any electronic, print or anything. Myself, I have a bit of a perceptive/cognitive handicap regarding recognizing colors, for my project I couldn't make my mind about what precise yarn to order even looking at yarn samples, until I got the actual bobbins side by side, yet it won't be until the actual sett is made with that yarn (two repeats better, to start playing the pleats strategy), that we'll get a reasonably well informed "bon a tirer," printer's expression for "go ahead!"
Two, brilliant idea to use a frame loom, which is the simplest ever loom. Add a solid heddle to cut labor 80%, you're in business in pretty much no time. Hey, the idea is so good I might go ahead with it... Ok, sure, it will not be twill but plain weave, but that's plenty plenty good to get that essentially priceless visual.

Rain stopped, can go back to my loom... Today, the heddles apparatus with the pedals (I'm sure it has a name, will try to find that for the end-of-day report), hopefully also the flying shuttle.

[Steve Ashton]

If there is one suggestion I could make it would be to search out your local spinners and weavers guild.
In my local area the weavers have been so generous with their time and knowledge that I cannot imagine taking a project like yours to full fruition.
You are going to need to be able to produce Twill weave fabric of between 10 and 16 oz per linear yard. Not hard, but not the same as the fabric for shirts, pants and/or other clothing.
Weaving a Tartan is not hard once you have a loom and have practice weaving some cloth. But the actual operation of a loom is just one small component of the entire process. It's not the loom itself that makes the cloth, it is the hands and muscle memory of the process along with all the other factors. Sourcing the warp and weft yarns is going to be one of the first hurdles. Are you going to spin the yarn yourself? Dye it yourself? Or find and purchase yarn from a commercial source? Do you want modern yarns of modern composition spun on commercial machines or do you have a source for home spun of the composition, weight, and tensile strength to warp your loom?
If you are new to weaving your local guild can be a major factor in your success.

Just one of the many looms in my house. This one is a manual countermarch style constructed of maple. This one is capable of 8 shafts although only four are needed for the current project. The only metal are some nuts and bolts and rods in the take-up. I did not construct this loom but have made many replacement and upgrade components. Heddles are Texsolv as I chose not to hand-tie a couple thousand heddles. This loom is 48 inches wide and can produce fabric 36 inches wide single or 72 inch wide double woven.
Yes a flying shuttle would be nice but adds over 6 feet to the width of the loom, hence to the size of room required.



Depending on how much, and how wide and long, a piece of fabric you wish to weave, you may not need or want a loom this large or complex. If you only want to produce samples perhaps a tabletop loom would suit you.



This 8 shaft Jack Loom is perfect for samples or prototyping, and will weave Twill fabric, but not of the width needed for a kilt. And the weaving takes longer due to its manual shaft operation.

[NHhighlander]

Very grateful to you, Steve. You hit several very important points

If there is one suggestion I could make it would be to search out your local spinners and weavers guild.
In my local area the weavers have been so generous with their time and knowledge that I cannot imagine taking a project like yours to full fruition.

We do have a sweet local community of spinners, weavers, felters, knitters and all things sheep and wool, around a local business, Eagles' Aerie. I do enjoy the get-togethers, friendly attitude, as you said, everybody willing to share. However... As far as I know there is no flying shuttle in the lot, not even clear if anyone actually has been weaving in the last few years, except me, did a little bit of inkle work, which made me the local pro... The visit of an expert weaver has been announced as an event to come, precisely.

You are going to need to be able to produce Twill weave fabric of between 10 and 16 oz per linear yard. Not hard, but not the same as the fabric for shirts, pants and/or other clothing.

if my spreadsheet makes sense, and the linear yard is 60 inches wide, then it looks like I'm going for 22 oz. Heavy. Back in the mountains where I come from, we like it heavy. Apparently heavy is a total unobtanium in this day and age. Yay!

Weaving a Tartan is not hard once you have a loom and have practice weaving some cloth. But the actual operation of a loom is just one small component of the entire process. It's not the loom itself that makes the cloth, it is the hands and muscle memory of the process along with all the other factors.

Ohhh! this is a big deal raw nerve you're hitting, healing now...
Thank you, I do appreciate people who help me stay honest and focused. Even if my local guild is not much help, you are.
This muscle memory thing is the one reason, the one fear i had, that caused me stop my project for nearly a year.

First, I agree 120% with you regarding the importance of muscle memory. Without it, them squares, they ain't. I don't have that kind of skill (I even developed a robot to do calligraphy in my stead), nor have much intention in trying to develop it, as I know my limits. Yet I'm moving ahead now, because I figured out a way to cheat. That's the automated positive take-up. Took me a couple months to perfect it, until last week. We'll see...

And also, or instead?, the concept of pushing the beater, instead of pulling, then the beater's weight presses each pick exactly the same amount, gravity. Doing that might even make that automated cheat become unnecessary. This video of Marion Campbell shook my fears away, gave much needed confidence: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ly-lFONTuGk We'll see...

Sourcing the warp and weft yarns is going to be one of the first hurdles. Are you going to spin the yarn yourself? Dye it yourself? Or find and purchase yarn from a commercial source? Do you want modern yarns of modern composition spun on commercial machines or do you have a source for home spun of the composition, weight, and tensile strength to warp your loom?

Didn't I say you were good?
Yes, this was a bit of a snag. Obviously, I wanted homespun, natural dye. Sanity prevailed, and life is good after I found a USA source for Canadian Maurice Brassard wool, Ability Weavers, https://abilityweavers.com/. Fantastic service, very reasonable prices, ready to special order anything. I'm going with the Blue Mountain 2/8, 2,100 yd per lb.
25 EPI, which should give me a bit over 4 setts on the 25 inches at 1/4 count. Or so i hope...

Just one of the many looms in my house.
...
Heddles are Texsolv as I chose not to hand-tie a couple thousand heddles.

LOL.
Eventually, to take this loom of mine places (like to Games), I'll tie those heddles, because of historical reenactment reasons.
I did 60 or so, but then sanity prevailing, will install wire ones for now, I get all confused with Texsolv.

Yes a flying shuttle would be nice but adds over 6 feet to the width of the loom, hence to the size of room required.

6 feet? Hmm. Methinks should be much less than that, but, we'll see how mine works before I try to convince you to adopt this.

...
If you only want to produce samples perhaps a tabletop loom would suit you.

This 8 shaft Jack Loom is perfect for samples or prototyping,

Yes, i did a bit of prototyping on a tabletop 4-shaft. I totally agree with going in stages, making errors often and early with small projects, learning on the cheap. That looms looks like a real cutie. I recently built myself a 4-shaft with PVC, warped it, but then decided to just get going with the big project. It still was a useful experience (meaning, there was a major issue, that got solved), because of the way that I set the counterbalance (report on the third day, tomorrow), the warping is non-conventional.

Hey, really really grateful. "I wishfully want to think that I know what I'm doing (while, really, I have no actual idea)," but even that is just right now, after making many mistakes, with as much humility as possible, and I really do appreciate those who know, that can look over my shoulders and point to possible issues. That the ones you mention I happened to be aware of, yet not solved, doesn't mean that I'm not overlooking something else essential... And, precisely, my solutions aren't any good until the pudding actually gels... As he said, stay thirsty, my friends.

[NHhighlander]

Doesn't look like much advance yesterday, but, one step at a time, Dad said.



Fundamental moving parts are in.

• A start of the beater frame - hanging from top
• B the pedals
• C the lams
• D the shafts (two sticks form one shaft, 8 sticks here)

Four shafts are needed for twill weaving.
Each pair of sticks holds a frame. Frame holds the heddles, each heddle carries one warp thread. We will need 628 heddles for 25 inches at 25 ppi (picks-per-inch, the density of the fabric. Lightweight tartan goes 40 ppi or more, this one is heavy, 22oz, did we say?), therefore 157 heddles in each shaft frame (these sticks here are mostly stand-in for sanity-check purposes, the good ones will be narrower. See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ly-lFONTuGk. Again, one step at a time).
Shafts are paired two-by-two, hanging from pulleys on the structure on top. One shaft of each pair is pulled down, the corresponding pair gets pulled up. Let's call our shafts 1, 2, 3 and 4.
In "normal" floor looms, an ingenious system allows lifting any pair by the use of 6 pedals. This allows the choice to weave twill or plain weave. However, I do not care for plain weave, only twill, therefore I will need only 4 pedals, which also simplifies the pulley system (in previous looms that I have built, adjusting the pulleys gave me much grief and waste of time and happy. I'm looking forward to an easier life if I can - other people building looms have also reported regarding this being a sore point and challenge). Therefore, my pairs are 1::3, and 2::4. If you think about it, I can never lift 1 and 3 at the same time, one goes up, the opposite goes down.

The magic of twill comes together with a 4-step sequence.
Shafts 1 and 2 go down (3 and 4 are pulled up, obviously), one thread of weft goes though, get beaten in the fabric.
Follow by lifting 2 and 3 (3 went down, pulled its corresponding paired 1 up, 2 just waits there), shuttle returns, another thread, beat.
Then 3 and 4 down, thread.
4 and 1 and thread complete the sequence, which will then restart again with 1 and 2, etc.

4,500 times later (1,125 sequences of 4 steps), 180 inches of tartan are done, 5 yards for a box-pleated kilt (box pleating seems to be the right thing for heavy, "legacy" tartan, which uses less yardage). Oh yes, there is some shrinking to be compensated, during weaving, during post-weave washing, and also the sequence gets mighty funny the first and last few inches for the envisioned Total Border with herringbone and chevron and birdseye, but, as it is written, one problem at...

The way the whole assembly works, is that one set of shafts is attached to each lam. Because each pair of shafts happen to hang together from the pulleys, the lams are supposed to be, in order, 1, 3, 2, 4, for shaft pair 1::3 and 2::4. So far so good.

Then, each pedal is supposed to pull two shafts at the same time. That's where it all comes together. Starting from the left, the first pedal will pull lams 1 and 2, which will pull down their attached shafts, causing their paired ones to go up.
The next pedal will be set to pull lams 2 and 3. Etc.

We'll see at the end of day today...

Important disclaimer: my setup responds to my way of doing things. While I try to respect orthodox and time-honored procedure, as it works for others, I got way too confused trying to follow what other people say that they have been doing, and figured out by myself, using the honored process of error and fix, in finding something that WORKS. Solid, reliable. I cannot guarantee that this is what the rest of the world is doing. More so, I'm pretty sure it isn't, it appears that standard looms operate on a different arrangement of lams and shafts and pulleys oh my. But, if it works, then I'm happy. YMMV, etc.

[jsrnephdoc]

Ohhh! this is a big deal raw nerve you're hitting, healing now...
Thank you, I do appreciate people who help me stay honest and focused. Even if my local guild is not much help, you are.
This muscle memory thing is the one reason, the one fear i had, that caused me stop my project for nearly a year.

First, I agree 120% with you regarding the importance of muscle memory. Without it, them squares, they ain't. I don't have that kind of skill (I even developed a robot to do calligraphy in my stead), nor have much intention in trying to develop it, as I know my limits. Yet I'm moving ahead now, because I figured out a way to cheat. That's the automated positive take-up. Took me a couple months to perfect it, until last week. We'll see...

You may be wondering about your weaving skills on your project loom, but you've just demonstrated mastery of weaving conversations on XMarks!

I hope you'll tolerate a few comments on why I find this conversation so pertinent.

My interest stems from my desire to have cloth woven (probably by House of Edgar) in a variant of the usual Robertson Red tartan that apparently has not been produced for 2 centuries, but IS listed on the SRT website. It's Robertson Red (white line). I've always felt that the usual Robertson Red is just TOO MUCH RED, and the narrow white stripe shown in this variant on the SRT website seems to break up that mimicry of a stoplight quite nicely.

HOWEVER, many of the more experienced contributors here have cautioned me NEVER to trust a "digital swatch," especially for color accuracy, but also for feel to the hand and appreciation of how the tartan actually would look in a finished garment. Peter MacDonald responded to a query I posted online saying that such a project would be "too much, too expensive," (not a direct quote but the essence of his thoughts, I believe). That surprised me a bit, so I asked a person I'd not communicated with in well over 3 decades (former spouse) who WAS an accomplished hobbyist weaver back when I knew her. I don't know whether she knows anything about tartan, but she suggested as well that I contact my local (Las Vegas) weavers guild. Their spokesperson said no one here is up to that challenge.

Perhaps I don't even NEED a swatch "in the cloth;" I could just obtain a sample of House of Edgar's 13 oz "standard" Robertson Red, but inasmuch as that narrow white line is interposed in a wider contrasting color stripe, that nuance might be useful to see, methinks. Of course, that presumes that the BASIC color issues would be addressed by that sample of HoE's standard fabric and an order to use their same yarns for my custom weave, with the addition of the white.

Even THAT is problematic, however, because Peter has posted that one of the rare examples he's seen of this fabric used SILK for the white stripe, and while he reported that it looked VERY nice, actually using silk to make that stripe in new fabric would create a whole NEST of problems.

But, beyond my OWN concerns, the more generic question this poses is whether weaving a sample swatch on a home loom could at least address the "I can't trust the color balance on my monitor to be the same as on yours" and the standard caveat offered by virtually all competent kiltmakers to "always get a swatch in the cloth beforehand when deciding on what to use for a new garment."

Thanks so much!

I must comment that your "back to first principals" approach rivals in complexity a common joke among undergraduate collegiate students fearing that their European History survey course would include an essay question along the lines of "Describe the Universe, and give two examples."

[NHhighlander]

...collegiate students fearing that their European History survey course would include an essay question along the lines of "Describe the Universe, and give two examples."

Made me laugh. My kind-of-master's-equivalent exam (DSLL - just doesn't exist anymore after some Bologna treaty, and the University of Nancy doesn't list it or respond to queries. But it makes for a nice right-side pillow for my full name when spread out in formal style) was a disquisition on Descartes Discours de la methode. In French. I went in with a brand new Bic. It actually ran out of ink before I was done.

Anyway, dear @jsrnephdoc, I actually have read at least a few of your posts on this matter (almost rants... that diagnosis said in love) regarding the too red Robertson's, and the difficulties to get an alternative. I actually do concur, if you mention it first because I wouldn't , us Duncans share the tent with Robertson's etc., and, ahem, it is definitely very red.

Now, something that I don't mention too much because of the obvious risk, one sure way to wake me up is to imply, even better if evidence is provided, that a given task is impossible, or at least too hard. "Fierce when roused," right? I totally wouldn't be here if I hadn't read in one of Peter E. Macdonald's papers that the Total Border is very difficult. Honey to a bear, that is.

So let me pick up the challenge, and, in the next few minutes, I'll have a kind of poor-man's equivalent of a sample-in-the-cloth, or at least in the yarn, for my 1/4 Duncan, which I actually should check out before I commit a couple hundred dollars of yarn to it.

hold a moment...

edited to add:
Behold, ye olde sett stick.

hmm. took almost 1/2 hour, not quite rapid prototyping... and I will be the first to say that this doesn't solve much, because the effects of mixing warp and weft colors is not there. Yet, useful, at least for me. Turns our that 1/3 Duncan, 94 threads instead of the canon 280, makes a sett of only 3 inches with Maurice Brassard 2/8 Blue Mountain (of course that's not the whole answer, but a useful guideline). Will have to recalculate, probably get more heddles, and yarn. Even heavier fabric!, je ne suis pas contre (not against that).

[Steve Ashton]

Just a note - the idea of pushing the beater bar instead of pulling it results in entire loom working backwards. The Warp yarns would be wound on the front beam and the cloth on the back beam. But that is not the problem. The Warp yarns go through the Heddles to lift and form the pattern. Then beaten. If you try to do this in reverse the Heddles would have to be in the front of the loom and you would not be able to beat which would be hidden behind.
A loom beater bar is usually metal in the form of a comb. It is the metal that allows you to beat evenly and firmly.



I would not try to re-invent the wheel. The weaving loom as we know it today is the result of thousands upon thousands of very talented and imaginative weavers. In the thousands of years that people have been weaving they have pretty well worked out what works and what does not work.

Some floor loom basics
A Jack Loom is one where the Heddles lift the Warp yarns upwards only.
A Countermarch loom is one where the Heddles both lift the Warp yarns up and also pull the Warp down to form a better shed.
A Counterbalance loom is one where the Heddles are both lifted and dropped but the method to lift is different from the Countermarch.



It is all about controlling when the Warp Yarns lift to form the pattern in the fabric.

There is even what is called a Jacquard Loom which was basically the first computer. It uses punched paper or wooden cards to control each Warp yarn individually in very complex patterns.



Of course a loom can be as simple as a Backstrap loom, and Inkle Loom or a Rigid Heddle Loom but these are usually more manual in operation and require more time to manually move the Warp Yarns.

I, personally would not bother with a flying shuttle. These were developed to allow the weaver to create wider fabric where they cannot easily reach from one side to the other when throwing a shuttle. They need a lot more room to mount to the loom, and are quite complex to make, with a special type of shuttle needed. They are nice to have and do make the weaving faster and easier on the arms but are not required. My wife can weave a 72 inch wide, double-weave, blanket on a 48 inch loom without flying shuttle.

This is not to mean that new ideas can not be developed. For example I wanted to make hat bands for my new hat. I only wanted to weave narrow tapes of a Celtic Knot design, and there are tape looms out there. I first tried an Inkle Loom I already had but it was taking hours and hours to weave just a few inches.
So I came up with a Tape loom based on a Jack Loom. I call this a 20 shaft tape loom.



I was able to weave this hat band in one day including the time to warp the loom.



But what I did was not any different that what others had already worked out. Just modified for my particular needs, in my basement shop, quickly, and with basic woodworking tools, and skills. I learned and borrowed from others the basics of how a loom works.