Belt through loops or over?

[Brian F]

Matt and I have posted many times on this forum about "loops". Matt has written a lot on the history of loops, and kilts 50 years ago had no loops at all. Loops started to appear as small loops to carry the sporran strap so that it wouldn't feel like it was going south. Over time, the loops evolved to be be big enough to force a belt through, and then people expected to be able to put belts through them, so they've gotten bigger yet. I've seen some that are 6"' deep.

As a kiltmaker, I don't like to see people put a belt through these loops. The minute you sit or bend over, the belt pulls on the bottoms of the loops and distorts the horizontal line of the kilt. If you go to a Highland games and look a kilt that's been worn a lot (lots of band kilts are this way) with a belt through loops, the kilt is permanently distorted right at the loops, and even the kilt bottom pulls up.

That said, a lot of guys are aware of this but still make the decision to use the loops for a belt because they feel that the belt stays put better. I'm of the opinion that a well-fitting kilt doesn't need loops to put a belt through, but, having said that, I do put loops on if someone asks for them, although I try to discourage them.

Now that's a convincing argument if I've ever heard one!

~Yeti

[Tartan Hiker]

I've seen this discussion many times, and I believe that another variable worth considering here is the fit of the waist. I don't mean well-made vs. poorly made kilts.

A properly made 8-yard kilt has the inner pleats cut out, making a thinner region where the belt will eventually ride. The cut-out will flare a bit right at the waistband, making a thicker zone above the belt. Keeping the belt in place without loops is easy, since it can's slip over this thcker zone.

A properly made 5 or 6-yard kilt, or a properly made box-pleated kilt, won't have this built-in "belt groove" (for lack of a more graceful term). the belt has the tendency to ride up over the waistband since there's nothing there to prevent it from doing so. I suppose that the maker could add a thick, narrow band just at the waistband to simulate the effect inherent in a properly made tank, but I've never seen or heard of this being done.

As a result, I've always added loops to my low-yardage kilts. Without them I have to regularly adjust my belt to keep it in place, especially if I'm sitting or getting into and out of a car.

The real kiltmakers here may need to correct me (please do!), because I'm certainly no expert on this. Just my observations so far.

Also...I may add a rolled piece of fabric under the lining of the box-pleat I'm working on right now to see if this helps. I'll photo-document this and give a review later.

[Bob C]

Wearing your belt over your loops is like wearing a baseball cap sideways.

[Barb T]

No reason you can't take them off.

[The Wizard of BC]

Tartan Hiker,

What you are experiencing is the result of a couple of things. The first is that there should be no difference in the outside shape of a kilt regardless of the yardage in the kilt. If the kilt is made to fit the same.

Fit is defined as where you are wearing the waistband of the kilt. If your kilt is made to fit at the natural waist then the top straps should be cinched into the waist, which is just below your ribcage at the side and above the naval in the front. A kilt made to fit here will have a reverse taper built into the top of the Fell area. This is called the Rise.
A Kilt designed to Fit at the Traditional Waist will taper smaller from the hips to the top strap and then back out above the strap.

If the kilt was designed to Fit at somewhere other than the natural waist it may not have this Rise. Of course It may not have this Rise because the kiltmaker may not know it should be there too. Unless they were schooled or read Barb's book the amount of Rise, reverse taper, is so small as to be missed on a first look.

Having the excess fabric cut out of the inside of a kilt should not change the way the kilt Fits at all. If you feel the thickness of the kilt it should be a smooth, and gradual reduction of thickness from the bottom of the Fell to the Waistband.

Now, if you kilt moves on your body as you move through you day, you are not wearing the kilt where it was designed to Fit. If you have a properly made Traditional Kilt and you are wearing it at the natural waist the kilt cannot move down because you get bigger below the straps and you also get bigger above the straps so the kilt can't move up. The only way I can think the kilt would be shifting is the kilt is not cinched into the waist.

[Panache]

I always put my sporran straps through the loops.

As for the belt, well that depends on the kilt and the belt. On some combinations it works with them in and some it works better with them on top.

Cheers

Jamie

[Nervous Jock]

I'm of the opinion that a well-fitting kilt doesn't need loops to put a belt through, but, having said that, I do put loops on if someone asks for them, although I try to discourage them.

Exactly, you do not need to wear a belt with a kilt, so why should you need loops

[Nervous Jock]

Wearing your belt over your loops is like wearing a baseball cap sideways.

[The Wizard of BC]

Did anyone else notice in three or four posts above, there is Barb in her avatar. And just below is my post.

Notice how Barb is sitting there with her arms crossed and that "Teacher" look on her face. Looking down at my post, I can almost see her head shaking from side to side and her making that tsk, tsk sound.

Creepy.

Kinda like Barb saying "Steve, I write you books and I write you books and all you do is chew on the covers."

[Freedomlover]

Wearing your belt over your loops is like wearing a baseball cap sideways.

ROFL!