Celtic Crest

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

Frank,

But on another matter, you say it is incorrect for a clansman to display the crest in color? I'm no heraldic expert, I admit, but I do know more than the average bear on this topic. And this is the first time I've heard it suggested that it may not be proper to display the crest in color. Can you please share with us your source for this information. Thanks!
Matt

Matt is absolutely correct. There is no reason at all why a clansman may not display a clansman's badge in it's proper heraldic colours. The caveat is "proper". That means the exact colours as described by the Lord Lyon in the Letters Patent confirming the Arms of the Chief.

The buckle and strap can generally be of any colour [B]EXCEPT[B] blue, as this is reserved for the insignia of the Order of the Garter, unless it is described on the Letters Patent as being of a specific colour. The Chief's motto must appear on the strap.

[Highland Logan]

The buckle and strap can generally be of any colour EXCEPT blue, as this is reserved for the insignia of the Order of the Garter, unless it is described on the Letters Patent as being of a specific colour. The Chief's motto must appear on the strap.

The following is from a leaflet from the Lord Lyon Court, reprinted on ElectricScotland.com

6. Notes
2. The strap—and—buckle is NOT a "Garter", and it should NEVER be shown coloured blue with gold buckle and edgings like the insignium of the Order of the Garter. Crest Badges are for wear by the clansmen, and as they are made of silver or white metal they should never be illustrated on paper or other materials in colour, other than white or silver. Line drawings should be printed in monochrome. It is the privilege of ladies to wear the Crest Badge of their Chief as a brooch, usually on the left lapel of a jacket or equivalent position on a dress, and they may wear it thus in gold if they choose. Real eagle’s feathers behind the badge may be worn by those entitled to feathers on appropriate occasions, e.g. Clan Gatherings. Ladies do not wear feathers behind the Crest Badge, either real or in metal, unless they are Chiefs, Chieftains or armigers in their own right.

Frank

[BoldHighlander]

The buckle and strap can generally be of any colour [B]EXCEPT[B] blue, as this is reserved for the insignia of the Order of the Garter, unless it is described on the Letters Patent as being of a specific colour. The Chief's motto must appear on the strap.

Does that mean these blazer patches carried by the Scottish Tartan Museum are incorrect then?

http://giftshop.scottishtartans.org/blazer.html

(Just wondering... )

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

Does that mean these blazer patches carried by the Scottish Tartan Museum are incorrect then?

http://giftshop.scottishtartans.org/blazer.html

(Just wondering... )

It is easy to overlook the "blue strap"-- probably neither the vendor nor the manufacturer knew that blue straps are a no-no. What can't be overlooked is the name embroidered under the clansman's badge. That's just tacky. (But then in my opinion blazer badges are tacky, so this embroidered name thing just compounds the offense as far as I'm concerned.)

As far as the Lyon's opinion regarding the display of polychromatic clansman's badges is concerned... see the headline above.

[BoldHighlander]

It is easy to overlook the "blue strap"-- probably neither the vendor nor the manufacturer knew that blue straps are a no-no. What can't be overlooked is the name embroidered under the clansman's badge. That's just tacky. (But then in my opinion blazer badges are tacky, so this embroidered name thing just compounds the offense as far as I'm concerned.)

As far as the Lyon's opinion regarding the display of polychromatic clansman's badges is concerned... see the headline above.

Thank you

I think a lot of vendors do not know then that this is a "no-no" as you & Frank have explained. I've seen many such blazer crests (some without the name tag) and clan banners with blue in the strap.

[BoldHighlander]

I'm in the process of having a new tartan banner made for our clan booth, and I received the following from the maker:

I use the Book of Crest for my source and have other artwork which has been provided by the different clans. I have not done a Mackay, but I do have the artwork which is the dexter arm erect, couped at the elbow, the hand grasping a dagger (also erect). The wreath colors are azure (blue) and silver.

Okay, so then it wouldn't be proper to display the blue within the strap (what she refers to as a wreath), even with silver instead of gold?

[macwilkin]

I'm in the process of having a new tartan banner made for our clan booth, and I received the following from the maker:

I use the Book of Crest for my source and have other artwork which has been provided by the different clans. I have not done a Mackay, but I do have the artwork which is the dexter arm erect, couped at the elbow, the hand grasping a dagger (also erect). The wreath colors are azure (blue) and silver.

Okay, so then it wouldn't be proper to display the blue within the strap (what she refers to as a wreath), even with silver instead of gold?

This is from Lady Saltoun's web site; she is the Chief of the name and arms of Fraser:

http://www.fraserchief.co.uk/heraldry.html

If you scroll down, you'll see a banner in blue and silver.

And the wreath is not the strap, btw. The wreath (twisted silk) sets above the helm, and below the crest.

Regards,

Todd

[BoldHighlander]

This is from Lady Saltoun's web site; she is the Chief of the name and arms of Fraser:

http://www.fraserchief.co.uk/heraldry.html

If you scroll down, you'll see a banner in blue and silver.

And the wreath is not the strap, btw. The wreath (twisted silk) sets above the helm, and below the crest.

Regards,

Todd

Thank you gentlemen, like I've mentioned before I'm a novice when it comes to heraldry and I appreciate all the information that you provide to us

If I do have the banner made of tartan it will be the so called Ancient colors, a little bit lighter. And if possible I'll have the strap done in black.

Thanks again!

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

I'm in the process of having a new tartan banner made for our clan booth, and I received the following from the maker:

I use the Book of Crest for my source and have other artwork which has been provided by the different clans. I have not done a Mackay, but I do have the artwork which is the dexter arm erect, couped at the elbow, the hand grasping a dagger (also erect). The wreath colors are azure (blue) and silver.

Okay, so then it wouldn't be proper to display the blue within the strap (what she refers to as a wreath), even with silver instead of gold?

The wreath (that twisted bit under the arm holding the dagger) needs to be blue and white (white is heraldic silver); the arm has to be "flesh toned" the dagger needs to have a silver blade and gold cross guard and pommel.

The Buckle and Strap needs to be something that will show up well against the dark Mackay tartan as well as contrast with the clan motto.

For what it's worth, I think the Clan Banner authorized by Lady Saltoun is really the best way to go as it is a far better display of "clan heraldry" than affixing the badge to a "tartan blanket".