Celtic Crest

**Sketraw** · 26th February 08, 04:48 PM

Originally Posted by MacMillan of Rathdown

Aw, try selling that at a meeting of the Convention of the Baronage of Scotland!

True again Scott,

but the Convention of the Baronage of Scotland is not an authority and was put together, as you well know, because of the abolition of feudal tenure in 2004, to try and keep an historic record of baronies as they would no longer be recorded in the register of sasines.

Lyon Court only makes mention of Chieftain's wearing 2 feathers:

Originally Posted by Lyon Court Leaflet No 2

i.e. Heads of large branches of a Clan and Officially Recognised as such by the Lord Lyon King of Arms. Chieftains may wear either their own personal Crest within a plain circlet inscribed with the Motto, as for a Chief, but with TWO small eagle’s feathers instead of the Chief’s three. If the Chieftain is also a Peer, he may add the appropriate coronet of rank on top of the circlet.

**MacMillan of Rathdown** · 26th February 08, 08:22 PM

Originally Posted by Sketraw

True again Scott,

but the Convention of the Baronage of Scotland is not an authority and was put together, as you well know, because of the abolition of feudal tenure in 2004, to try and keep an historic record of baronies as they would no longer be recorded in the register of sasines.

John, I think the Convention of the Baronage of Scotland has been kicking around for at least twenty years. The barons were specifically exempted from abolition although their feudal entitlements (as opposed to their heraldic entitlements) were extinguished. At some later date, possibly 2004, Lord Lyon Blair took it upon himself to extinguish all baronial rights, in clear contravention of the Act itself. This resulted in a number of learned gentlemen of the law challenging the Lyon on this point and resulted in the Lyon reversing his prior decision not to recognize feudal barons.

I know that there has been a suggestion that the Convention of the Baronage of Scotland should maintain some sort of record of baronies as these are no longer recorded in the register of sasines, but I do not know if they have gone forward with this or not.

**Sketraw** · 26th February 08, 09:37 PM

Scott, Lyon will no longer recognise feudal Barons as he can no longer check the validity via sasines. It may be worth looking at this from The Burkes Peerage & Gentry International Register of Arms Newsletter which outlines the Lord Lyons Ruling.

Click here to view the PDF

**MacMillan of Rathdown** · 27th February 08, 08:41 PM

Originally Posted by Sketraw

Scott, Lyon will no longer recognise feudal Barons as he can no longer check the validity via sasines. It may be worth looking at this from The Burkes Peerage & Gentry International Register of Arms Newsletter which outlines the Lord Lyons Ruling.

Click here to view the PDF

John, That is the point Lyon reversed himself on. Several barons were recognized in Letters Patent after Blair's published "deadline".

The argument re: checking validity really doesn't hold much water as virtually every barony ever created is to be found in the pages of the sasines. Chain of title would be more difficult to prove, but not necessarily impossible.

I believe that "Burkes" is owned by Preston of Preston Grange, and that there was some discussion about forming a "Burkes Barons Club" to act as some sort of "register", but I really don't have all the details.

I am sure the whole matter will be revisited by Lord Lyon Blair's replacement.