Lifting a Kilt

[sharpdressedscot]

I honestly hate double standards (don't we all), but when this sort of action is to be expected that crosses the line. the equation of kilt+me= kilt lifting does not exist in my book. However, if it's just a tease or a joke it's fine as long as it's a joke.

[DireStraitsFan]

Course when the lovely lady in the Kilt Inspector t-shirt approached at the games I stopped, stood with my arms spread wide in a welcoming jesture, and smiled. Twice she failed to do her job. Go figure.

Ron

Easy there Ron. Keep 'Nessy in the loch. No need to be scaring the ladies with the sea serpent.

[Highland Logan]

To me, stating we have any sort of blame for other's reactions is comparable to telling a rape victim it is his/her fault they were raped. I have never done anything to invite someone to lift my kilt, and it is ridiculous to assume that I should be forced to accept that sort of treatment.

Given that I never said how I personally react when someone does it to me, You may not want to make comments about someone you don't know. I was merely making a comparison to something that occurs in the other gender. Given that lifting a man's kilt is legally assault in many states, my comparison was not inappropriate. That's why I made it, and for no other reason. Then again, maybe you don' t like my responses because you see a bit of truth and don't know how to respond.

I agree it is assault. Rape was mentioned the first time, and I'm sure real rape victims would be taken aback by the suggestion that kilt lifting is in line with what they went through (just as suggesting that a woman without breasts due to cancer is not a woman is the same as saying a uiltikilt is not a kilt), your comparisons seem to be inappropriate. I also never said that we should live with it.

Course when the lovely lady in the Kilt Inspector t-shirt approached at the games I stopped, stood with my arms spread wide in a welcoming jesture, and smiled. Twice she failed to do her job. Go figure.

I said that people who encourge this behavior should be told to grow up, because the rest of us have to deal with it. Was that plan enough this time.

Frank

[davedove]

I'm going to have to say there is a time and place for everything. I think the biggest factor here is unwelcome kilt lifts, and especially unexpected ones.

If someone (of either gender) lifts your kilt, that is unwelcome and something needs to be done about it.

If, however, I am in a relaxed environment and a young lady playfully asks about what's under the kilt, that's an entirely different circumstance for me.

This sort of advance is just like any other, it depends on the circumstances. For instance, I wouldn't want just anyone walking up to me and giving me a hug either.

[McFarkus]

I once wore a "kilt" to high school... there was a guy that I was in drama club with who had a crush on me. He asked if I was man enough to wear the kilt the traditional way... I wasn't. But my response to him was, "are you man enough to find out?"

He lifted to mid-thigh before he conceded that I was more of a man.

My nephew James (XMarks memberr Seamus) had a similar experience in high school (which he chronicled here:http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/t...x.html?t=10893) only in his case it was a girl and she didn't stop at mid-thigh.

[JamieKerr]

Logan, I was not comparing having my kilt raised to being raped. I apologize if that is how you took it. What I was saying is that some people say it is a rape victim's fault for being raped, that they did something to warrant the assault. I was comparing that fact to some people's belief that if I'm wearing a kilt, I should expect to have people pull it over my head. Does that sound better?

[Panache]

As things seem to be getting a bit heated I would like to try to add a bit of perspective here.

We choose to wear kilts

The kilt has all sorts of associations with it.

Like it or not "The Question" and Kilt Lifters are part of those associations.

If you wear a kilt, sooner or later (unless you are Grant ) you are going to be asked what you wear under your kilt and/or someone is going to want to see for themselves.

Here is the great thing, you know this. Forewarned is forearmed. We all have the opportunity to prepare an arsenal of witty phrases ready to disarm someone. If that isn't comfortable to you then a stern glance and simple "None of your business" will suffice. For the would-be lifter a quick downward brush with one's hand and a very direct "NO" is a very simple matter.

If you can't accept the associations and deal with them in a reasonable manner then I'd advise you to not wear a kilt.

If someone physically attacks me I will resort to violence. If someone is rude I am not going to do so. This would be overreacting and wrong.

On that same note, no matter how rude someone else is I am not going to descend to their level. I am a gentleman first and foremost, and a gentleman knows how to deal with rude people and remain a gentleman.

Cheers

Jamie

[Chef]

Well part of the problem is in the attitudes of some who wear the kilt.

First, in reading the thread mentioned above, the poster is talking about the fact it "made his day" to have a young lady lift his kilt. If there are those who feel it is not only ok to have a kilt lifted but that they in fact want it lifted that creates a problem for all.

Second, a preponderance of moon shots by those in kilts. Again this leads others to believe that kilt wearers want to show off what is underneath.

Lastly, as seen on this forum in all too many threads many kilt wearers are (in my opinion) overly focussed on what they do or do not wear under their kilt. if it is such a big deal to us no wonder others are fascinated.

While I agree that because some invite it does not mean a "lifter" should feel free to lift anyone's kilt. The fact is however, if we want to rid ourselves of "lifters" we need to scold anyone who thinks it great fun to expose themselves while wearing a kilt, as much as those who do the lifting.

[Makeitstop]

I don't think there is anything wrong with having a little fun, and adding some humor to life by not taking things like "the question" too seriously. A witty remark or mildly suggestive joke (in the right setting of course) is just a little harmless fun. It is a very different thing than flashing the goods or seriously inviting people to explore the area under the apron and beneath the pleats.

We shouldn't have to be too serious about these things. The problem is with those people who can't separate the joke from reality. I will not stop having fun just because some people want to take it way too far.

The way I see it, it's not too different from when a woman dresses in small, tight, revealing clothing. It doesn't exactly scream "respect me" but it doesn't give me the right to slap her @$$ either.


That said, the world is not a nice happy place. Wearing a kilt does come with the increased risk of harassment and assault. It's not right, but it is the reality of the situation. As such, we must all be prepared to deal with this problem, just like all the others we are likely to face.

[sdc]

Say, "Nope, you have to make an appointment to find out."