Heraldry Sources?

[Highland Logan]

Nothing like reviving an old thread. Anyway I was wondering what the rules about coats of arms are if they are no longer used. ie. I'm of Clan Keith. The associated coat of arms that is pictured previously in this thread actually belonged to the the Earl Marischal of Scotland. The last known person to hold this title was George Keith (1693-1778). He had a brother whom I cannot find any information on, and a sister who married another Lord, but George Keith had no direct decendents as far as I know. What are the rules for a coat of arms then?

If no one can lay claim to them, they died with him, as they were his.

Frank

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

These are the arms of Lord Kintore, Chief of Clan Keith, as drawn by Don Pottinger, Islay Herald, and one of the all-time greatest heraldic artists, ever. The drawing is copyright by his estate.

This is the clansman's badge of a member of Clan Keith, and may be worn by those who place their clan allegiance with the chief of that clan. As with the illustration above, it too is copyright by the estate of the late Don Pottinger.

When in the 18th century George Keith, Chief of the Clan, died without issue, his arms would have passed to either a brother, a nephew, or a cousin, and thence, by descent, to the present Chief of the Keiths, Lord Kintore.

I hope that answers your question.

[TatterDel]

You may have already seen this but it has a lot of great info in it and a lot of references.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heraldr...es_of_heraldry

[macwilkin]

You may have already seen this but it has a lot of great info in it and a lot of references.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heraldr...es_of_heraldry

A rarity for Wikipedia; a better source, especially for Scottish Heraldry is:

http://www.heraldry-scotland.co.uk/

T.

[Matthew Siegmann]

These are the arms of Lord Kintore, Chief of Clan Keith, as drawn by Don Pottinger, Islay Herald, and one of the all-time greatest heraldic artists, ever. The drawing is copyright by his estate.
This is the clansman's badge of a member of Clan Keith, and may be worn by those who place their clan allegiance with the chief of that clan. As with the illustration above, it too is copyright by the estate of the late Don Pottinger.

When in the 18th century George Keith, Chief of the Clan, died without issue, his arms would have passed to either a brother, a nephew, or a cousin, and thence, by descent, to the present Chief of the Keiths, Lord Kintore.

I hope that answers your question.

Okay, I'm not trying to be difficult, I'm just trying to understand, does that mean that the Lord Kintore no longer uses their previous arms or do they now have two sets? Here is a link to what the original Earl of Kintore arms look like: http://www.clankeithusa.org/history-...ls-kintore.htm

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

Okay, I'm not trying to be difficult, I'm just trying to understand, does that mean that the Lord Kintore no longer uses their previous arms or do they now have two sets? Here is a link to what the original Earl of Kintore arms look like: http://www.clankeithusa.org/history-...ls-kintore.htm

Upon the death of George Keith in 1778 his entailed estates passed to Lord Falconer.

The arms seem to be Falconer quartered with Keith (I can't really tell because the illustration is too small for me to make it out properly). Since the Earldom of Kintore can pass through the female line it is likely that this occurred, thus promoting Lord Falconer from the rank of Baron to the rank of Earl and Chief of Clan Keith.

It is not especially uncommon for someone with a quartered coat to use only the pronominal quartering.

[dowofbuchanan]

i live in the us so i would have to pay for my arms to be noted by going to scotland to the court of lord lyon protesting my right to bear and then iwould actually submit for a mactrilation (abc?) of arms as i am the first son of a first son but that a long and costly process thousands of dollars would be spent so you have a relative you have found in scotland if so have them register the arms and then you can petition for a modified version of his like adding a star or plume its much cheaper ... hey i just looked at your local and im glad to see someone in misery with me

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

i live in the us so i would have to pay for my arms to be noted by going to scotland to the court of lord lyon protesting my right to bear and then iwould actually submit for a mactrilation (abc?) of arms as i am the first son of a first son but that a long and costly process thousands of dollars would be spent so you have a relative you have found in scotland if so have them register the arms and then you can petition for a modified version of his like adding a star or plume its much cheaper ... hey i just looked at your local and im glad to see someone in misery with me

As you live in the USA you would have to prove that your ancestor, with the same last name, came from Scotland. Lord Lyon would then devise a coat of arms for you that would show your relationship to that ancestor. If you were unable to prove that relationship, then you would have three possible alternatives:

1) If your ancestor was Canadian than you might be eligible for a grant of arms in Canada.

2) As you reside in the United States (and presumably you are a US citizen) then you could apply to the Spanish heraldic authority for a grant of arms. The Spanish heraldic authority grants arms to individuals in the former Spanish possessions. As all of the New World was, at one time, a Spanish possession, you would qualify for a Spanish grant of arms.

3) You could apply for a grant of arms from the South African Bureau of Heraldry.

Of the four options available to you, I would advise you to seek arms in Spain if you do not qualify in Scotland or Canada.

[macwilkin]

2) As you reside in the United States (and presumably you are a US citizen) then you could apply to the Spanish heraldic authority for a grant of arms. The Spanish heraldic authority grants arms to individuals in the former Spanish possessions. As all of the New World was, at one time, a Spanish possession, you would qualify for a Spanish grant of arms.

Not only that, but Missouri was once a Spanish posession, i.e. Spanish Louisiana.

But, with the death of Don Vicente De Cadenas, Cronista Rey de Armas, what is the status of the Spanish Heraldic Authority?

Regards,

Todd*

*Down in Springfield

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

Not only that, but Missouri was once a Spanish posession, i.e. Spanish Louisiana.

But, with the death of Don Vicente De Cadenas, Cronista Rey de Armas, what is the status of the Spanish Heraldic Authority?

Regards,

Todd*

*Down in Springfield

The Marquis de la Floresta has succeeded the late Don Vicente, and it is pretty much "business as usual". Give me a couple of days and I'll dig out his address, etc.