Number vs. size of pleats

[Barb T]

17/32 is scarcely more than 1/2" at the waist. If you are making this for a guy (and not a female dancer, for example), I think you'll find that 1/2" at the waist is too small and you won't like the look of it. And 5/8" at the hips is, to my taste, too small as well. I try to aim for 3/4" or even a little more at the hips.

To be honest, I don't think I've ever put 33 pleats into a kilt. Most kilting tartan has big enough setts that 8 yards just doesn't have enough repeats for an average-sized guy to have more than 23-29 pleats in his kilt. I just made one with 31 pleats, but the person has 54" hips, and I needed more than 25" of pleats across the back and 9 yards of tartan (and it wasn't a particularly large sett).

Here, for example, is a kilt with 27 pleats for a man with 41" hips and a 36" waist. That makes the pleats a bit less than 5/8" at the waist and about 3/4" at the hips. I can't imagine what it would look like if I had had enough tartan to stuff another 6 pleats into this kilt and the pleats were smaller! It would just look odd. And your hips are a lot smaller!



So, personally, I would cut the # of pleats down.

BTW - what is the # of inches in the sett, and what's the weight of the tartan?

Oh - and the reason I said "and not for a female" above is that it's very common for the waist-hip differential to be large enough in a woman's kilt that the pleats at the waist are around 1/2" even though the pleats at the hips are over 3/4" or even over an inch. Can't be helped.

Also - I assume from the 18" that you need for the pleats that your hip measurement is about 35-36"?

[meinfs]

You (and I) have got some great advice from our experts. I don't think I can do better but here is my two cents.



Here's my secret:
One personal approach that I take -- for example, the one I used on my Stewart Gray kilt -- was to find a natural line (two lines) on the tartan to use as the edges of the pleat on both sides (or rather both edges) of the major stripe that I want to pleat it to. As long as this gives a pleat size of 1/2" to 1", and has the aesthetic look that you desire, then it'll be fine. [Needless to say, this approach is limited by the patterns in the tartan and the weight of the tartan fabric. We know that heavier version of the same tartan fabric will tend to have bigger setts and larger distances between lines; the lighter version of the same tartan will have smaller setts and closer lines).

[For me, it makes it much easier to see where I'm stitching (- along a line in the fabric).]

Having said that, you can then back-calculate the number of pleats. Instead of deciding at the start how many pleats you want, start with what pleat size you want. This also means that your pre-determined value of 18" of pleats *may* change. Like W_BC said, it's an art; so it doesn't have to be exactly 18" (it was determined subjectively to begin with anyway). And the tartan will have the final say! That is, it depends on the lines available in the tartan. It may not work as easily for some tartans.


So, now you have the pleat size that you like (this is at the hips!!), calculate the number of pleats that will fill your 18" (give or take). Then calculate the taper (per The Art of Kiltmaking).

Hope this helps.

[herminator]

What tartan is that??

Looks great!!

[Barb T]

One personal approach that I take was to find a natural line (two lines) on the tartan to use as the edges of the pleat on both sides (or rather both edges) of the major tripe that I want to pleat it to.

Just a quick note - this approach only works if you don't have any pleat taper. If the pleat has to taper at all toward the waist, you lose the edge stripes toward the top of the pleat, and it doesn't look very good.

Instead of deciding at the start how many pleats you want, start with what pleat size you want.

I absolutely agree with this. I never know how many pleats a kilt is going to have until I figure out where I want each pleat relative to the tartan sett and then lay it out and count how many pleats I have.

[TheKiltedCoder]

Thanks again to meinfs and to Barb for the comments. I'm certainly learning more and more about the whole process, and I'm really looking forward to finishing this.

One other quick question I'll throw out: with the original shaping of the left side of the overapron, there was more width in the shaping from waist to hip than there was in the first pleat. When I get home tonight, I'll redo the math on the pleats and see how things recalculate with a 7/8" pleat at the hip. However, if the shaping in the left side of the overapron is still wider than one pleat, what is the accepted method for dealing with it?

1) Widen the first pleat until I can stitch the entire distance to the fell?

2) Only stitch the part of the overapron that covers the first pleat to the first pleat?

3) Continue stitching the apron edge to the second pleat until I get to the fell line?

4) Somehow stretch or tilt the overapron so that the entire distance to the fell stays on the first pleat?

5) Stop and recalculate because this problem should never occur?

Thanks again for all the pointers, everyone!

Brian

[Barb T]

One other quick question I'll throw out: with the original shaping of the left side of the overapron, there was more width in the shaping from waist to hip than there was in the first pleat. When I get home tonight, I'll redo the math on the pleats and see how things recalculate with a 7/8" pleat at the hip. However, if the shaping in the left side of the overapron is still wider than one pleat, what is the accepted method for dealing with it?

Somehow stretch or tilt the overapron so that the entire distance to the fell stays on the first pleat?

I think I'm not entirely clear on what you're asking. But it's very common for the apron-edge taper to be much more than the taper in the first pleat. If that's what you're asking, then you just fold the first pleat the way it needs to be folded and stitch it to the diagonal curve of the apron edge. The apron edge, being a diagonal, will be a little longer than the first pleat, but a little stretching will do the trick, and it will be fine once the kilt is pressed.

You can see it easily in this kilt:

[TheKiltedCoder]

I think I'm not entirely clear on what you're asking. But it's very common for the apron-edge taper to be much more than the taper in the first pleat. If that's what you're asking, then you just fold the first pleat the way it needs to be folded and stitch it to the diagonal curve of the apron edge. The apron edge, being a diagonal, will be a little longer than the first pleat, but a little stretching will do the trick, and it will be find once the kilt is pressed.

You can see it easily in this kilt:

Hi, Barb,

I'll have to wait until I get home to look at the picture (as they have Photobucket blocked here at the office).

I guess that the easiest way I could explain it was that it was very difficult to try to ensure that all of the lines matched and connected from the overapron to the first pleat while still ensuring that the entire distance between the waistline and the fell stayed on the first pleat.

Thanks again,

Brian

[meinfs]

Just a quick note - this approach only works if you don't have any pleat taper. If the pleat has to taper at all toward the waist, you lose the edge stripes toward the top of the pleat, and it doesn't look very good.

Ooh. Yes, that is true. [If I can set the taper so that it covers the width of the particular edge so that there's a line all the way to the waist, I think it may work. Sometimes there's two edge lines in a tartan which make things easier. Sometimes there's no nearby edges to reference from. It all depends on the tartan.]

I see the point about the edge stripe or line disappearing as the pleat tapers to the waist --- a major stripe might look bare at the top. Although perhaps one might get away with if the tartan is a pretty one to begin with.

I think, the take home message for me personally, are:
-that I make sure that a line edge doesn't disappear in the taper, and
-that the tartan pattern is king and you adjust to it.


Also, you mentioned pleat sizes of no less than 1/2" also holds true at the waist. I never thought of it. So, a 1/2" pleat size at the hips may disappear to less than 1/2" if there's a large taper- which would not be desirable. This is excellent insight and advice. Luckily for me it's either the tapers have not really been large and in general, I prefer to pleat bigger than 1/2" at the waist anyway.

I absolutely agree with this. I never know how many pleats a kilt is going to have until I figure out where I want each pleat relative to the tartan sett and then lay it out and count how many pleats I have.

Thanks Barb. As a budding kiltmaker, I'm glad that some of my instincts are not too off the mark.

[Pleater]

Do you actually HAVE to stitch the sides of the apron/under apron? It would restrict movement and part of the reason for the shaping (I thought) is to allow the aprons to swing forwards when worn, but still have the sides look vertical.

Its like the shaping in a column, which is curved out only in order to prevent it look as though it is curving in.

Besides, where would you put the pockets?

Anne the Pleater

[Barb T]

Do you actually HAVE to stitch the sides of the apron/under apron?

The apron and underapron edges are only stitched from the top of the kilt to the bottom of the fell, just like the pleats are stitched. The apron edge is not stitched below the bottom of the fell.

I guess that the easiest way I could explain it was that it was very difficult to try to ensure that all of the lines matched and connected from the overapron to the first pleat while still ensuring that the entire distance between the waistline and the fell stayed on the first pleat.

Just pin the dickens out of it. I do. That way, you can get it in the right place, stretching it a little, and stitch it down perfectly. Let me know if I still haven't answered your question.

Here's an even better example (although it's not a very good photo). The edge of the apron is not stitched below the point of the yellow arrow. The same is true of the pleats.