Splits and measurements!?!?

[The Wizard of BC]

I would choose No 2 of each of your split choices. This makes the apron 18" wide at the waist and 20" wide at the hips. That is a good taper to the apron.
These splits also result in a 6" overall taper in the pleats which is about average. 22" tapered down to 16". If you choose to to have the Kilt have 22 1" wide pleats at the Hip they would taper down to just under 3/4" at the waist (.7272"). Also very nice.

I do however wonder about your measurement of the drop of the Kilt. You state that you are 20" from waist to top of knee cap. This seems a little short to me unless you are under 5' 6". You then state that the Kilt that fits you well is 23" drop. Your Drop should be measured from the center of the top strap down to the hem. There is then a 2" rise above the strap.
The top strap of the Kilt should cinch into your natural waist which is just below your ribcage at the side.

You then state that the well fitting Kilt is 20" at the Hips and 22" at the Hem. This should not be. The pleats should drop parallel and vertical from the Hip to the Hem. The measurements should be exactly the same.

It seems you may be getting number bound. I know, I was there once myself. And I'm an engineer and used to working with measurements.

My suggestion would be to take just one measurement at a time. Or one element of the Kilt at a time and concentrate on understanding how that fits in the whole. Then move on to the second number or element.

Remember the KISS principle. Keep It Simple Stupid!!!

Also remember that until you are ready to cut away the inside of the pleats nothing is hurt or damaged. You can rip it all out, press out the creases and start all over.

It's a lot more art than it is rocket science. So don't sweat it.

[Dixiecat]

What a coincidence, I was going to post to ask opinions on the splits for a kilt too. So, if Gilvray doesn't mind, I'm going to hijack his thread.

Waist: 30", Hips: 41"

Waist Splits:
#1: Apron 15" Pleats 15"
#2: Apron 15.5" Pleats 14.5"
#3: Apron 16" Pleats 14"

Hip Splits:
#1: Apron 20" Pleats 21"
#2: Apron 19.5" Pleats 21.5"
#3: Apron 19" Pleats 22"

This person has a slightly rounded upper tummy and a slightly flat behind. I'm pretty well sold on both #2's, but I always 2nd guess myself and of course still learning. Anyway, suggestions welcome!

[Barb T]

Waist: 30", Hips: 41"

Waist Splits:
#1: Apron 15" Pleats 15"
#2: Apron 15.5" Pleats 14.5"
#3: Apron 16" Pleats 14"

Hip Splits:
#1: Apron 20" Pleats 21"
#2: Apron 19.5" Pleats 21.5"
#3: Apron 19" Pleats 22"

This person has a slightly rounded upper tummy and a slightly flat behind. I'm pretty well sold on both #2's, but I always 2nd guess myself and of course still learning. Anyway, suggestions welcome!

Again (see immediately previous post), I wouldn't ever use a 2" hip differential, particularly if someone has a slightly flat behind. So, here's what I would do (starting with adding 1/2" to both measurements):

waist: apron 17; pleats 13 1/2

hips: apron 20 1/4; pleats 21 1/4

This person's measurements have a large waist/hip differential, and you'll need to do something to make the apron edge taper reasonable. 4" is actually a lot of taper to manage - although it can be done, it's a full 2" on each side. By choosing 17 at the waist (instead of 16), you decrease the taper to just over 3". If you didn't want to snug the kilt in to the small of the back quite so much, you could use 16 1/2 and 14 at the waist, but I wouldn't go much less than that in the apron.

[Dixiecat]

Thanks Barb. I saw your previous post and had worked out new splits, but hadn't gone quite so far as 17/13.5 on my waist splits. I DO want to snug it in on the back waist as the back waist is quite small. This person is me and my back waist is always trouble with any garment.

Maybe a sticky could be created with the intention of posting splits and getting opinions?

[Gilvray]

Thanks Barb, Steve, ChattanCat and Moosedog... its starting to become clear - ... (like Barbs book says: beginners dont get "you'll just know when its right" - they prefer an exact equation! )

Right - onwards and upwards - time to get back to it! I'll post some pics as I progress - bit of a blog - not done one of those yet.

Thanks again.... XMarksTheScot Rocks! (ahem - as they say....)

[Smayniac]

I have to admit, I've been reading the book evenings lately as well, and had just gotten to the whole concept of splits, which don't figure into the XKilts I've made previously. I was most interested to see this thread come up and the advice to others helps, I think, I'll have to look again when I have the book and my own measurements in front of me.

I'm hoping to have my "practice" traditional, in the "light grey" blend from F&K for Christmas as well, but I think I'm going to try to make up my badger first.

Wish me luck!!

Bob

[Barb T]

You'll do fine! And you can always post your questions for advice as you go along.

[Barb T]

And here's my take. First, add 1/2" to both measurements, so that you have a little expansion room. You'll eventually put the buckles on at your actual measurements, so it will fit fine.

So, starting with 34 1/2 and 42 1/2, here's what I'd do:

waist: apron 18 1/2; pleats 16

hips: apron 20 3/4; pleats 21 3/4

The apron edge taper is a hair over an inch on each side, which is definitely do-able. The 2 1/2" difference between the apron and the pleats at the waist will snug the kilt into the small of your back.

You have a nice trim waist, and you want a full inch more in the pleats at the hips than in the apron. But you definitely do **not** want more than that. If you put more than an inch extra into the pleats at the hips, you'll have issues with "the wave" across the back.

So one split that might work for you is waist: 18" apron 16" pleats, and hips: 20" apron and 22" pleats.

A little more on this. I have never made a kilt with a 2" differential at the hips. And the only time I would ever go with more than 1" is if the person had a teeny little waist and a chubby little butt. That would be the case below, which is me in my kilt. I used a 1 1/2" differential so that the kilt would go around my more than ample behind:





But I've never met a guy who needs that much differential - guys just aren't shaped like that (and, in truth, kilts aren't meant for people of my shape, and I wouldn't wear one if I weren't a piper). But, back to splts, I commonly make kilts for guys with *no* differential. If someone has a belly, I use the same measurement for the apron and the pleats at the hips.

Hope this helps!


Oh - also - don't do this by trying to measure an existing kilt. Many kiltmakers add some to the actual measurements when they're laying a kilt out - and, in fact, if you follow the directions in The Art of Kiltmaking, you'll see that the center stripe in the apron isn't actually dead center, because you bump the right hand apron edge out an inch to make sure that the fringe covers the underapron. So measuring a kilt doesn't help unless you know exactly what adjustments the kiltmaker has made.

And post pics when you get done!