Old photo find

[BobsYourUncle]

This is a most entertaining thread! The photos each of you have posted are quite fabulous! By the way, while my own personal taste is for diced or tartan hose for evening wear, I will defend Panache's right to his opinion until death, or serious inconvenience, which ever comes first.

[Thunderbolt]

Hmm, something just dawned on me, and the whole "Hose must NOT be white" argument.

Aren't most sheep....white? Wouldn't it be a logical argument to think that hose were originally white to begin with? I mean, I think that dyeing and such came after weaving. It wouldn't make sense to invent a way to dye cloth, THEN invent cloth?

T.

[ThistleDown]

Hmm, something just dawned on me, and the whole "Hose must NOT be white" argument.

Aren't most sheep....white? Wouldn't it be a logical argument to think that hose were originally white to begin with? I mean, I think that dyeing and such came after weaving. It wouldn't make sense to invent a way to dye cloth, THEN invent cloth?

T.

Actually, Thunderbolt, it's the yarn that is dyed and then the hose are knitted. You are referring to "piece-dyed" and that's not how hose are made.

[M. A. C. Newsome]

I wondered if "home knitted hose" might have been part of the genesis of the cream hose. Un-dyed wool is sometimes cheaper than dyed wool.

Undyed wool is not white. It can be cream colored, or oatmeal colored, or some other similar shade, but not white. Bleached wool is white. I think when people speak of "white" kilt hose, people often confuse it with cream colored. I recently asked someone who was speaking against white hose what he thought of hand-knit cream colored hose, and he had no problem with those. Two different animals, in most people's opinion.

[M. A. C. Newsome]

Well Matt, in Scotland it's the norm that if your wearing a waistcoat / vest, you don't wear a belt,

Exactly my point. I often advise men here in the states that it is perfectly acceptable (and even recommended) to wear the kilt sans belt, but it's an uphill battle at times!

and as for your other observation, please consider these photo's where taken in Scotland at a time when personal appearance and self respect where common place.

Again, my point exactly! I think if more people dressed nicer in general, it would certainly have a good effect on the way we view ourselves and our society. Just yesterday I got a compliment from an older lady at our parish. My three boys (ages 1 to 4) all decided they wanted to wear ties to Mass yesteray morning (well, the 4 and 3 year olds decided, the 1 year old just went along with how his mother dressed him). The compliment I received was for being such a good example to my boys of how to dress for the occasion. I truly believe it not only instills them with self-respect but also with respect for the occasion, in this case a Mass, but the same would apply regardless the function.

[M. A. C. Newsome]

Of course if I had to put up with the temperatures that some of you chaps have to contend with, a sharp rethink of attire would be in order!

That is a consideration, which is one reason why I enjoy some of the late-fall Highland Games around here. Because for a change instead of dressing like this:


I can dress like this:


Not that there is anything wrong with either mode of dress -- I just feel more like a Highland gent in the latter!

[M. A. C. Newsome]

Hmm, something just dawned on me, and the whole "Hose must NOT be white" argument.

Aren't most sheep....white? Wouldn't it be a logical argument to think that hose were originally white to begin with? I mean, I think that dyeing and such came after weaving. It wouldn't make sense to invent a way to dye cloth, THEN invent cloth?

T.

Kilt hose were originally tartan to begin with, from what we can tell. We are talking about elements of Highland fashion that came about much, much later than the advent of weaving, knitting, dying, etc. Those are all skills that date from pre-history, whereas kilt hose are really only documentable back to the early 1600s.

Though people in the Highlands certainly knew how to knit, and were making knit goods, the original kilt hose were cadadh, made from tartan cloth cut and sewn on the bias. It was only much later that knit hose became the norm, and they certainly had many color options available to them -- in fact they were often knit from several colors to mimic the look of the original tartan hose. This is the origin of Argyle and diced knit hose.

[Thunderbolt]

Actually, Thunderbolt, it's the yarn that is dyed and then the hose are knitted. You are referring to "piece-dyed" and that's not how hose are made.

Oh, yeah. I should have been a bit more clear on that. "After weaving", I should have said 'After spinning'. Or whatever point wool is usually dyed, somewhere between post-shearing and pre-knitting!

Undyed wool is not white. It can be cream colored, or oatmeal colored, or some other similar shade, but not white. Bleached wool is white. I think when people speak of "white" kilt hose, people often confuse it with cream colored. I recently asked someone who was speaking against white hose what he thought of hand-knit cream colored hose, and he had no problem with those. Two different animals, in most people's opinion.

Thanks for clearing that up. Obviously sheep are not "Bleached" white. But most sheep are white-ish. I do agree that bright white hose look out of place. I have a pair of 'almost too white hose' that I wear for dressy-er informal stuff, and I quite like the look...

T.

[McMurdo]

I found a few more from LIFE


Lochiel and Lady Hermione standing at the Keig Falls on his estate.


England's Queen Elizabeth with husband, King George VI at Legion celebration.


England's King George VI (L) wearing kilt with a knife sticking out of top of his socks, with Queen Elizabeth (2L) talking with widows of WWI soldiers during the Legion celebration.
(I must say I really love the look of his kilt hose)


John Dewar Haggart wearing Ross tartan made of his own tweed.

[Sheep In Wolf's Clothing]

I found a few more from LIFE


England's Queen Elizabeth with husband, King George VI at Legion celebration.

That is an interesting waistcoat..look how it is cut in the front..
Great pictures again Glen,
Sara