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  1. #1
    Join Date
    19th February 08
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    Why do these clans not have cheifs?

    My clan, Douglas, is chief-less due to the hyphenated last name of our would-be chief.

    Is this the same for many of these other clans as well?
    The Barry

    "Confutatis maledictis, flammis acribus addictis;
    voca me cum benedictis." -"Dies Irae" (Day of Wrath)

  2. #2
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    17th December 07
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Barry View Post
    Why do these clans not have cheifs?

    My clan, Douglas, is chief-less due to the hyphenated last name of our would-be chief.

    Is this the same for many of these other clans as well?
    Well, a double-barreled name (Smyth-Udny, for example) would definitely be one reason. A chief is legally the "Chief of the Name and Arms of X" and as such can only have one surname, not two. Two other reasons a clan may be chiefless are migration and extinction.

    In the case of migration the chief has left Scotland at sometime in the past and with the passage of time his descendants are unaware of their chiefly status. Sometimes, as in the case of McBain of McBain in the United States, genealogical research uncovers the entitlement to the undifferenced arms of the chief. When this happens the genealogical "proofs" are laid before the Lord Lyon who carefully studies them, and then decides if the proofs are sufficient in the law to recognize the individual concerned as "Chief of the Name and Arms of X".

    Extinction is just that. The last known chief died at some time in the past, and left no immediate heir. In some instances it could be necessary to go back through numerous "chiefly" generations before the last known chief to find "survivors" who would be entitled to lay claim to the chiefship. If this could be done (and it is really, really, difficult owing to the scarcity of early highland records) than the senior most descendant of that chief could approach Lyon Court with his genealogical proofs, and ask for recognition as "Chief of the Name and Arms of X". Now as daunting as this process may sound, it does happen. I believe it was MacDonnell of Keppoch who recovered the chiefship of his clan a few years ago. The previous chief had died without heirs in 1889, but the claimant was able to establish senior lineal descent from a Keppoch chief in the 17th century. The process took nearly thirty years, and several appearances before the Lord Lyon, but ultimately he prevailed.

    A similar process is now taking place with the Bells of Blackethouse, a border "clan".

    If all else fails and there is sufficient interest on the part of a "clan society", the Lyon may allow the election of a new chief, but under the strictest control of his absolute authority. Details of this process are outlined in Way & Squire's book, The Collins Scottish Clan and Family Encyclopedia where an entire chapter is devoted to the law of the clan. I would suggest it would make for further reading if you are interested.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    24th January 08
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    Hi Scott, Romilly's & George's account of what is required to establish a New Chief in their book was updated in Feb 2002 by then Lyon Blair. The new updated requirements as Todd pointed out can be found here http://www.clan-duncan.co.uk/clan-re...derbhfine.html

    However the one thing that does not appear in the ruling is that any new Commander/Chief must be a resident in Scotland for over 3 years.
    John A. Duncan of Sketraw
    "Oh wad some power the giftie gie us, tae see oorsel's as ithers see us."

    Clan Duncan Society The Heraldry Society of Scotland
    Scottish History Online

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sketraw View Post
    Hi Scott, Romilly's & George's account of what is required to establish a New Chief in their book was updated in Feb 2002 by then Lyon Blair. The new updated requirements as Todd pointed out can be found here http://www.clan-duncan.co.uk/clan-re...derbhfine.html

    However the one thing that does not appear in the ruling is that any new Commander/Chief must be a resident in Scotland for over 3 years.
    Thanks for the updated info! I'm sure it will make its way into the next edition of G&R's book... I'm not sure how Robin Blair's residency requirement would stand up under EU law. A person resident in any EU member state is supposed to have the same standing in a British court (and that includes the Court of the Lord Lyon) as any person resident in the UK, including Scotland. But then it's no longer former Lord Lyon Blair's problem, is it?

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