"Jacobite" garb

[thescot]

Brian, it appears in the later costume that you are wearing a modern style kilt as opposed to the great kilt in the earlier style. Is that in fact the case. Is it likely that the Scots of the '45 were wearing a sewn kilt?

And thanks for the photos.

[Woodsheal]

Brian, it appears in the later costume that you are wearing a modern style kilt as opposed to the great kilt in the earlier style. Is that in fact the case. Is it likely that the Scots of the '45 were wearing a sewn kilt?

It's a loosely box-pleated kilt with the pleats tacked into place at the top:



We know that philabegs were being widely worn at the time of the `45. They are mentioned in the Proscription, and appear in period images:





What we don't know is the exact manner of the kilt's construction at the time. Was it hand-pleated and belted every time like a full-sized plaid? Was there a drawstring (also postulated for the big plaid)? Were the pleats sewn into place? No kilts survive from that period, or from the following 5 decades. Utilitarian garments like that were usually worn until they were falling apart, or the fabric used for something else.
The earliest surviving kilts are military examples from 1790s and have stitched in box-pleats. When did that practice begin? No one knows....

[Woodsheal]

...to continue:

According to J. Telfer Dunbar, the earliest definitive image of the "little kilt" is in a portrait of Alasdair Ruadh MacDonnell of Glengarry, dated to the early 1740's. In the painting, Glengarry himself is wearing a belted plaid, but his henchman to the rear has on a philabeg:



It's a bit hard to see, but those who have seen the original describe that kilt as being pleated in its entire circumference, common to the period. Now, that all-round neat pleating would be rather hard to achieve by throwing 4 yards of fabric out on the ground, hand-pleating it, and belting it on - the way modern reenactors don their "great kilts." A drawstring or pleats stitched into place seems more likely.

But, I'm just speculating (gasp!)....

[BobsYourUncle]

A great kick off for the new forum. Cheers!

[dredrush]

Would a "Highland Shirt" from USA Kilts or other retailers be a Jacobite shirt? Or is there a big difference?

[Captain_Cogle]

Would a "Highland Shirt" from USA Kilts or other retailers be a Jacobite shirt? Or is there a big difference?

There is a big difference.

These would be better.
http://www.jpryan.com/details/shirt.html

Or this.
http://www.reconstructinghistory.com...q=2&p=392&w=21

Missy Clark does good work as well.
http://www.barkertownsutlers.com/Men...2/Default.aspx

[Erikm]

Thanks Woodsheal Do you know any place to find one, I have a Highland Sleeved coat but I need the sleevless waistcoat.

It seems I can't get a hold of Missy Clark for months now, and really gave up trying.

Would something like this work or wrong for Jacobite period?

Not sure if the 1750 style was different then something from the 45
http://bellandcompanytraders.com/waistcoats.html

[Scotus]

Brian:

Your photos are excellent examples of the historical representation of the kilt! This is what I meant in that other thread about the Jacobites being serious in their reenacting. I hope others will start similar threads in this section. Thanks, Brian!

[madman79764]

...to continue:

According to J. Telfer Dunbar, the earliest definitive image of the "little kilt" is in a portrait of Alasdair Ruadh MacDonnell of Glengarry, dated to the early 1740's. In the painting, Glengarry himself is wearing a belted plaid, but his henchman to the rear has on a philabeg:



It's a bit hard to see, but those who have seen the original describe that kilt as being pleated in its entire circumference, common to the period. Now, that all-round neat pleating would be rather hard to achieve by throwing 4 yards of fabric out on the ground, hand-pleating it, and belting it on - the way modern reenactors don their "great kilts." A drawstring or pleats stitched into place seems more likely.

But, I'm just speculating (gasp!)....

I have a question regarding how this praticular period kilt was closed was it with buttons or just a belt?

[Woodsheal]

I have a question regarding how this praticular period kilt was closed was it with buttons or just a belt?

Again, we don't know for sure! Belts, buttons, pins, drawstrings, etc are all possibilities, but conjectural....