US Campaign Ribbons

[bigdad1]

It looks like a "mess'' to me. LOL

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

Interesting all the answers to the question. I might add another option. In CG Regs as in USN regs minature medals are part of the required uniform of a dinner dress jacket that was designed to mock a PC jacket.

Actually the mess jackets worn by the various services in the US are based on the mess jackets worn by the various British services. They're not modeled on the Prince Charlie coatee, which in all likelihood dates from the late 1930s.

If one wishes to wear a "mess jacket" instead of a coatee-- fine. But, what looks bad, and is in contravention of federal regulations concerning the wearing of US service uniforms, is showing up kilted in one's Army/Navy/Air Force/Marine/Coast Guard mess jacket, complete with buttons, badges, insignia of rank, etc.

All service regs are clear on this issue: former or retired personnel either wear the full uniform, or civilian attire. There is no middle ground, and no exception is made for kilt wearers.

[KiltedCoastie]

Actually, in the uniform regulations there is a section on wearing kilts, and they ARE worn with either the "A", "B", or Dinner Dress uniform.

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

Actually, in the uniform regulations there is a section on wearing kilts, and they ARE worn with either the "A", "B", or Dinner Dress uniform.

Really? Would you mind posting that, please?

[bigdad1]

What's the matter Mac? Your authority being questioned?

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

What's the matter Mac? Your authority being questioned?

Certainly not. However, when someone posts something that I'm not familiar with, I always ask for a citation. Unlike some folks, I'm always willing to learn.

[KiltedCoastie]

4.E.1. Fabric Description
The “U. S. Coast Guard Tartan” is registered with a thread count of W10 R10 CGB12 R2 CGB12. “W” is white; “R” is red; CGB is Coast Guard Blue shade #3362, which approximates the Dept. of Defense Standard Shades for Heraldic Yarns, cable #67180.
4.E.2. Use of Coast Guard Tartan
Individuals participating in Pipe and Pipe and Drum bands normally wear the uniform and insignia required by the organization, but if they are claiming Coast Guard affiliation, they must use the official Coast Guard Tartan. Coast Guard standard insignia is not authorized for wear with the Coast Guard Tartan Pipe and Pipe and Drum Band uniforms. If insignia are desired, they must be other than standard military insignia. 4-15
4.E.3. Authorized Use
Individuals may wear the Coast Guard Tartan for ceremony, such as the Coast Guard Ball or other authorized occasions; Coast Guard Dinner Dress Blue, Dinner Dress White, Service Dress Blue, and Tropical Blue uniform items shall be worn with the Tartan.

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

4.E.1. Fabric Description
The “U. S. Coast Guard Tartan” is registered with a thread count of W10 R10 CGB12 R2 CGB12. “W” is white; “R” is red; CGB is Coast Guard Blue shade #3362, which approximates the Dept. of Defense Standard Shades for Heraldic Yarns, cable #67180.
4.E.2. Use of Coast Guard Tartan
Individuals participating in Pipe and Pipe and Drum bands normally wear the uniform and insignia required by the organization, but if they are claiming Coast Guard affiliation, they must use the official Coast Guard Tartan. Coast Guard standard insignia is not authorized for wear with the Coast Guard Tartan Pipe and Pipe and Drum Band uniforms. If insignia are desired, they must be other than standard military insignia. 4-15
4.E.3. Authorized Use
Individuals may wear the Coast Guard Tartan for ceremony, such as the Coast Guard Ball or other authorized occasions; Coast Guard Dinner Dress Blue, Dinner Dress White, Service Dress Blue, and Tropical Blue uniform items shall be worn with the Tartan.

I think there are two or three things which need to be said about the above:

1) "The Coast Guard Pipe Band is an unofficial, volunteer organization, affiliated with the U.S. Cost Guard, which is organized as a Florida non-profit corporation under Section 501(c)(3) of the Internal Revenue code." From the Coast Guard Pipe Band manual.

It is not part of the USCG. It is a private association in which--

2) "Membership is open to active duty, reserve, and retired members of the U.S. Coast Guard...and to members of the Coast Guard Auxiliary." Ibid

That being the case--

3) "Members of the Coast Guard Pipe Band wear the uniform...as specified in Coast Guard Uniform Regulations (COMDTINST 1020.6) and the Coast Guard Auxiliary Manual, modified for wear with the kilt, as set forth in the Coast Guard Pipe Band Regulations." Ibid

Which means that the members of the U.S.Coast Guard Pipe Band, Inc. have to adhere to and follow USCG uniform regulations as set out in COMDTINST 1020.6 et al. And what do the regulations say? Besides describing the pattern and color of all the uniforms worn by the Coast Guard (and there is no mention of the kilt), it also specifically limits the wearing of special, ceremonial, or band uniforms to occasions of ceremony or performance only.

4.E.3 specifically authorizes the wearing of Coast Guard Tartan for ceremony, ie: when the band would be performing at "the Coast Guard Ball or other authorized occasions".

Now one might argue that since the Coast Guard Pipe Band isn't part of the United States Coast Guard (despite it's name) then it doesn't matter if you show up in your band uniform at the local Highland games. Unfortunately, this isn't the case, because all of the members are in some way connected to the Coast Guard and subject to its regulations concerning the wearing of its uniforms. And the Coast Guard has clearly stated that items of Coast Guard uniform will not be worn with civilian clothes, which is precisely what the uniform of the U.S. Coast Guard Pipe Band Inc., is-- civilian clothes, modeled somewhat on the uniform of the U.S. Coast Guard, but without benefit of any U.S. Coast Guard insignia.

So, to suggest that there is an authorized United States Coast Guard "uniform" for wear with the kilt is to create-- or perpetuate-- a myth.

Because it certainly isn't supportable with facts.

[KiltedCoastie]

I think you're trying to be too damned legal hear. I have 27 years of service, active duty O-5 in the USCG and have worn my dinner dress with kilt to seven functions: Navy Ball, Navy Nurses Corps Ball, USMC Ball, and four USCG Balls with the Commandant in attnedance at one of them and only received praises for my attire, even from Admiral Allen the Commandant. Oh, and it wasn't even the CG Tartan!

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

Far be it from me to tell anyone, even a Coast Guard officer, that they should follow the regulations regarding the wearing of their uniform as set forth by their respective branch of service. If you want to wear your Coast Guard uniform dinner dress jacket with civilian attire, that's fine by me.

However, simply because some are willfully in breech of regulations does not imply that their actions are approved or condoned; merely that those actions are tolerated by others, higher up in the chain of command.

The original question raised on this thread concerned itself with whether or not it was proper to wear service ribbons on a Prince Charlie coatee. That question has been answered. The thread has now drifted into another area, that of whether or not the regulations prohibiting the wearing of United States military uniform items with civilian clothes should be adhered to.

In my opinion, as a matter of respect for the service, military regulations should be followed, not flaunted. Others may disagree. Either way, the topic of obeying U.S. military regulations would seem to be well beyond the intended scope of this forum. That being the case, perhaps this thread should be ended before things go further afield, or remarks become intemperate.